Streaming through upconverting DAC - can I even improve audio quality?


New to streaming but have been at this hobby for over 50 years.  Started by getting a Marantz SA-10 SACD player that enables streaming through its DAC only via SPIDF.  The SA-10 upconverts everything to DSD 11.2.  So I started with ifi Zen Stream via ethernet, good Belden 75 ohm cable, then upgraded streamer to ifi's linear power supply, which made an improvement I could hear through balance of system, Luxman 590axii and Yamaha NS-5000 loudspeakers.  Sounds good so I'v e started to look at other streamers thinking it could get better, including the new Eversolo DMP-A8 (where I could use its DAC or the Marantz) and even the $5200 HIfi Rose RS-130 (streamer only).  But here's the thing:  so far, just using free Spotify 44.1 redbook quality, 1) since the Marantz upconverts everything to DSD 11.2 would I gain anything from a premium streaming subscription? and 2) the Ifi's femto clock and it's purifier noise removal works on the signals into the unit (clock) and then out (purifier on coax) and then the Marantz' dual clocks take over, so is there anything to be gained with a different streamer's clock? Or have I gotten the quality to about as good as its going to get without investing significantly more in another higher end DAC and streamer?  Should I be able to get SACD quality via streaming or maybe I'm getting that now and it's just that streaming sounds different than a SACD.

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Showing 6 responses by eisen0169

Thanks, I'll give Qobuz a try first.  I'm trying to compare streaming to music I know well that I play on CD or SACD which is the only way I can judge.  I guess I don't understand if any signal the stream outputs is getting upsampled and upconverted to 11.2 what difference it makes as to what signal is streamed as input.  I'm sure the answer is technical and I'd be surprised if everything doesn't make a difference.  More experimentation is certainly in order.  Trying to find the sweet spot bang for the buck.  

The 44.1 redbook quality I am referring to is the sampling frequency of the linear PCM signal input to the Marantz DAC.  That's what the Marantz manual says.  What I'm hearing sounds as good as CD but of course the Marantz is upsampling.  Maybe the 44.1 is a default number since that's the lowest frequency supported by the Marantz and what's happening is the Marantz is upsampling and converting Spotify's 160kb signal.  I've never been able to find any really good review on the Marantz DAC when streaming through its coax input.

Yes, I'm understanding it now and have been researching.  I will do some more listening to the same music I know well on CD, SACD,and streaming via Spotify and Quobuz.  Thanks, everyone.

The Marantz SA-10 has two USB inputs but they cannot be used for streaming and both are synchronus.  One is a USB -A used strictly for stored music and the other is USB-B which is dedicated to iPod input, and older versions at that.  The SA-10 is unfortunately dated in this USB respect although from what I read unless a DAC is uber expensive most of the streamers sound better through COAX.  I think the method of streaming USB vs. COAX also has something to do with the clocks in both units and which one dominates in each of the two methods, but I'm not sure.  I know the Marantz has two femto streamers and the ifi has one. The SA-10 does have an optical streamer input but the ifi Zen Stream does not have an optical output.  Just because the SA-10 manual is a little confusing, I connected the ifi Zen Stream via both USB inputs and got nothing.  Anyway, my goal in getting the SA-10 was to make sure I had a high end SACD player and I liked the idea that, like the PS Audio Direct Stream, which went out of production at the time because it used a Toshiba disc drive, of converting and upscaling everything to DSD.  The fact that the SA-10 allowed streaming at all I considered a bonus if I were to try streaming.  My first attempt was to use a usb cable from my Macbook Air laptop and be able to sit across the room so I invested in a long usb cable and thought the sound was decent, but not good.  The next goal was to try a dedicated streamer at a minimal investment so I found a new ifi Zen Stream for $275 and that sounded good.  Then, of course I had to read more and found linear power supplies make a difference so for a few hundred bucks got the ifi version from Amazon.  No question the sound improved.  I made sure I had a true 75 ohm SPIDF cable.  My goal in all of this was to use the setup to preview music and then if I really, really like it, buy it on disc.  Now, however, I found the streaming setup sounds really good, even on free Spotify with its low bit rate lossy transmission.  No doubt the "Dac-less dac" in the SA-10 with its proprietary Marantz MMM conversion and DSD output has something to do with that.  I'm guessing for the investment what I'm getting is pretty close to optimal free Spotify sound.  So those goals have been achieved.  Now, the next step is to do some more critical listening as best as I am equipped) to compare cd and the streaming setup and then see what changes with Quobuz.  I don't buy that many CD's or SACD's anymore so I can then consider a Quobuz subscription to break the disc habit.  Whether it pays for me to take a next step to another DAC or streamer or combination might be questionable at that point and the investment spectrum is wide open.  I am intrigued with the new Eversolo DMP-8 because at its price point it would enable me to compare the AKM chip dac sound to the Marantz.  Plus if I can figure out the connections the Luxman has two sets of balanced inputs.  One would be used for the current setup with the Eversolo streaming through the Marantz DAC and the other can connect to the Eversolo DMP-A8's balanced inputs.  The Luxman then with its front selector dial lets either of its balanced inputs be used as an integrated amp or just as a power amp.  So the Eversolo could then be used with the Luxman power amp.  The Marantz SA-10 also has digital outputs and the Eversolo DMP-A8 has digital inputs so the system can be connected that way, too.  There are so many ways to see what sounds like what I think it would be very interesting. 

Yes, I can use my Macbook Air and did.  I wanted to hardwire ethernet but use the computer from across the room so I purchased a 25 or 30 ft. usb a to usb b cable with an inline booster.  There was also the need for a uab c to usb a connector since the Mac only has usb c.  This was in my living room so I was getting the data stream to the Mac vis the computer's Wifi 5.  The ifi streamer is connected via ethernet to the modem/gateway.  So then, when I use the MAC wirelessly it is sends the signal over ethernet to the ifi.  For whatever reason, the ifi sounds much better than the usb directly to the Marantz although its been a while since I listened that way and I never tried the setup with a shorter usb from the computer to the Marantz.  It's just too inconvenient to do that and sit in the sweet spot on the other side of the room.  I thought I had read synchronous, but I guess I was mistaken.  However, the way the Marantz is made its USB inputs are for connection to a computer or a memory device/stick or for files stored on an ipod or iphone.  For connecting to a device with digital outputs, i.e.digital streams, and using the Marantz as a DAC, the digital inputs on the SA-10 are only coax or optical.  The ifi Zen Stream has 2 usb-a 3.0 outputs and I tried both into both the Marantz usb-a and usb-b inputs and it does not work.  I thought that was a synchronous/asynchronous issue but it's something else in the way that handshake has to be configured that simply was not designed into the SA-10.  The word "streamer" is absolutely not mentioned once in the SA-10 manual.  I'm not technical enough to understand how the SA-10 is engineered to only take a digital in signal via coax, but unless I'm missing something or there's some magic trick or device to insert between the ifi usb output and one of the SA-10's usb inputs to allow it to stream that way, it's only coax for streaming through the SA-10.