Big speakers, are they really the best way to get great sound?

@daveyf --

Indeed, we listen for different things in our setups. That’s as it should be, or certainly that’s how it is. As I mentioned previously I’ve listened to the Guarneri’s at a couple occasions, and they’re very good speakers, I find - relaxed sounding, balanced, tonally "mature" and very resolved and easy on the ears.

@mijostyn wrote:

Darn, I like your philosophy. I also like your system. Please explain what you mean by, "actively configured"?

Thank you. Actively configured, as in digital crossover/DSP prior to amplification on signal level, and 3 stereo amps looking directly into their respective driver sections with no intervening passive crossovers whatsoever.

The only thing I do not like is running the 15" woofer up to 600 Hz. I assume this is because of the horn’s low frequency cut off. I would use a very high order cross.

The horns control directivity all the way down to 500Hz. For pro cinema installations they are/were crossed at 500Hz/12dB octave passively, or 24dB/octave actively, so they can to take the juice with fairly shallow slopes and the lowest recommendable XO. I cross them higher because I find they sound better here, and I use 36dB/octave L-R slopes. Using the 15" woofers this high is no issue. Meyer Sound’s EXP cinema series are crossed at 580Hz (with 15" woofers as well), and they sound excellent. JBL’s DD67000 Everest’s and M2’s are crossed at +700Hz, and they are very good sounding.

Minimizing room interaction by limiting dispersion is a very important concept. Omni Directionality is a problematic attribute as it maximizes room interaction. You "hear" the room which destroys the impression that you are in a large space. It is also much harder to achieve controlled directionality and not overdo it and limit reasonable listening positions. Horns are really good at limiting dispersion without overdoing it.

Never really cared for the sound of omni’s, and also for the reasons you outline. Yes, horns and their dispersive nature are very much helpful here and makes the room characteristics less of an issue.

You have a full frequency, limited dispersion point source system. I have a full frequency, limited dispersion line source system. I also configure everything "actively", by which I mean all crossovers and processing are done digitally and each driver or transformer has its own amplifier. I would love to be able to compare the two systems.

Indeed, it would be interesting to compare with our similarities in approach, and yet vital differences here and there. Floor to ceiling ESL’s, not least high-passed and properly subs augmented, are beastly performers.

@rolox wrote:

Live music is loud, effortless and impactful. Small speakers never really are. I can never be fooled into thinking I’m in the room with the musicians as I listen to small speakers.

To me, small systems are the equivalent of a very nice photography of an event; you will see everything on it but you’re not "there".

YMMV and we all have our preferences but I sure like a grand piano to sound like a GRAND piano!

+1

@daveyf, if you had mentioned in your OP the room treatment in place I would not have been inspired to type a long email trying to be of help.

It seems you to like to jump to conclusions about other people's systems

I did not jump to anything! The fact that I mentioned 2 grey panels should tell you that I obviously had a look at your system, not so?  I did not see this as a challenge to 'spot the hidden treatment'

As to why no photos of my system, well I do not feel the need, simple.

I post the photos below, not because of your brash comment but for the benefit of anyone interested in the start of my DIY super-chunk bass traps. They measure 900mm across the width and except for frequency specific helmholtz resonators this is what it takes to deal with the long wavelengths.

@lemonhaze 

I have a corner bass trap exactly like yours,  big and floor to ceiling and filled with Rockwool. I think these kind are the most effective. 

@ronbocoif you had mentioned in your OP the room treatment in place I would not have been inspired to type a long email trying to be of help.

I did not mention room treatments in my OP, as the place I heard the speakers in question was not in my room...or with my system. Not sure why you assumed that to be the case? The demo was at a local dealers and the room was large and fairly well treated. The room was certainly not the main problem here, although it did contribute...as they all do.

Nonetheless, don't get me wrong, I am a BIG believer in room acoustic treatments and in making sure that the room is optimized for the system; so no TV's between speakers, an attention to where the speakers are placed ( I use a laser to assist here) and careful attention to how cables are run etc.,

I also posted a new photo on my system page, which shows the vault ceiling in my room. This is a very important aspect of the sound field and in contributing to the SQ that i manage to get in this small room. Mainly due to the fact that while the size is small, the actual volume is acceptable.

@ronboco, Hey I think you can safely call that a dedicated room 😁 Congratulations. I agree with your philosophy of getting the room properly sorted early in the quest. So many ignore or avoid even considering acoustics and end up constantly swapping out components trying to banish brightness, congestion, boom etc.

I have 2 such traps in place but measurement shows I need one more, just need to finish up some house repairs first.