How to make the Focal Kanta No. 2 speakers sing?


Hi!

My first post here and I would like to hear your thoughts and tips for "warming up" my Focal Kanta 2 speakers.

 

TLDR

The sound from my Focal Kanta 2 speakers in my room is a bit shouty, bright and thin sounding, clearly lacking level and emotion in the lower mid range. Bass is good, quick and quite deep though.

Any tips for getting more "vocal warmth" into the system? Tube preamp, Dirac, ...? I see that many use old school power hungry amps that can heat your house during winter to drive Focal speakers. Is that really needed or can I get away with a modern amp that doesn’t cost a fortune.

 

More in depth information

In my living room (5.3 x 4.1 x 2.4m) I have a setup with both 2 channel and a multi channel setup. They share the same front speakers and front speaker amp.

2 channel setup:

 

5.2 channel setup:

 

I focus mainly on the two channel setup here. Multichannel is used quite much also for streaming movies, but is ok.

So the main issue for me is that the sound in in the two channel setup is thin sounding with mids clearly lacking in the lower end. It can be fatiguing to listen for a few hours. Bass though is enjoyable, fast and fairly deep.

Earlier I had the Focal Aria 936 speakers as front speakers in the same room (connected to the Yamaha AVR at that time). I liked them but wanted to upgrade to the next level after a few years 😄 The Arias were more forgiving than the Kantas, had more enjoyable warmth in the mids and were a bit rolled off in the top compared to the Kantas. Not fatiguing at all. But everything else the Kantas do better.

I have also had some other speakers, up to half Kanta price range, in the same room where all have had fuller mids and a more forgiving sound: Dynaudio, Totem and Triangle floor standers as well as Buchardt and my really old B&W 602s3 (super full mids but super rolled off in the top) stand speakers. The Kantas are different animals to all these and seem to require the a more delicate and correct chain of components to perform.

I have messed around with speaker positioning quite a lot. It’s mainly the bass region that is affected. Mids not very much.

Options I’m considering:

  • Upgrading the Yamaha AVR to a Marantz Cinema 50 for example to get Dirac room tuning, and run the 2 channel system through this also. The quality of the Marantz might not be the best here to use as a 2 channel pre amp/processor.
  • Use a dedicated pre amp for the 2 channel system. Budget up to 2000€. Not sure what to look for? Used equipment is fine.
  • Tubes? Never really listened to tubes but from what I understand you generally get a more warm sound from them. Tube preamp? Not very modern but might do the trick. Schiit Freya + seems to be within the budget range for example.
  • Other 2 channel amplifier. As mentioned I have tried to avoid the nuclear power plants of amps. I see people recommending amps from manufacturers like Musical Fidelity, Sim Audio, McIntosh, Accuphase etc. But these are really costly and I feel they generally belong in an older age that we are moving away from. But it might be what is needed, I don’t know, haven’t really heard them play.
  • Treat the room more. I have a big sofa, a really big carpet and a few acoustic panels in the room (no real science behind them now). The room in itself is a bit "bright" so here I can make a better effort of course, regardless of other taken measures.
  • Get other speakers. I can also just face it that the Kantas are what they are, sounding thin in the midrange and lacking emotion in voices. Getting other speakers might be the easiest upgrade. But it’s not that easy to find and test speakers in your room either...

 

Long story. Any recommendations?

Thanks!

donald_dac
Post removed 

Interesting how much difference a room makes! I brought home a pair od Kanta 3's for a couple weeks, used a hegel H360 to drive them. I loved the upper mids and treble, but was also troubled by lightweight upper bass, A huge boost in mid bass and no bass below 80 hz! The speakers were +10 db at 100 hz flat at 80 hz and had a slight -40 db recovery at a room node around 60 db making them sound to lightweight for my room. I've had other speakers that don't have proper weight for male vocals and I never could use digital eq to get the sound right. Room treatment and placement are probably your best bet. I owned the parasound a21 for a bit and that amp does add chestiness to everything it amplified, so a possible band aid also.

Saturday update: HiFi store visit. Sopra No.2 / Naim test

Yesterday I went to a dealer an hour away to check their store out and get some additional input to my questions. The store had a lot of different Focal speakers as well as Dynaudio, Sonus Faber, Audiovector among others.

In one heavily treated room (too much?) there was a setup with a pair of Sopra No. 2:s connected to a big stack of Naim New Classic 300 series gear (50 000€+). When it started playing I immediately noticed the Focal signature that I have at home with the brighter type of sound and the same feeling of lacking lower mids. The feeling after a few songs was that it could really have been my Kanta 2:s playing in that room, maybe sized up a notch. The bass felt a a tad slower but heavier. The overall sound signature was the same type as I'm used to, although exaggerated. I felt that the system to be even more in the fatiguing league than the Kantas. The volume was cranked up quite a lot though. Sound stage in that treated room (bass traps, wall absorbers, diffusers, absorptive ceiling ) was more compact, like a thicker/fuller wall of sound in front of me than I'm used to in my living room.

In another room (not as treated) there was a lower end floor standing Focal speaker setup (probably Vestia No.2) driven by an AXXESS Forte all-in-one box. This system didn't play as confidently as the Sopra system and it had a bit more boxiness and harder treble to the sound, as probably could be expected.

I regret that I didn't ask for another speaker brand to play next to the Sopras, like a pair of good Dynaudio:s, just to hear the contrast between the different "house sound signatures". I might very well go there again for this reason.

 

To sum the trip up, my takeaways and impressions:

  • Even with a lot more expensive and "recommended" electronics (Naim) and a treated room, the sound signature I have at home with my current setup is really there.

  • Makes me think that the electronics I have isn't that bad (in comparison to Naim at least).

  • Sopras deliver even more of the "Kanta signature" in the mids (even less lower mids) and top (even "more" details/treble). Bass is a bit fuller/deeper but slower. Sopra's sound is more detailed (and fatiguing). The room could have fooled me though as I didn't hear the Kantas at the same time.

  • If comparing Kanta No.2 to Sopra No.2, Kantas are the better choice for me.

  • I will look into acoustic treatment of my room more. The effect in the demo room convinced me.

  • The trip made my Kantas sound better to me. One of the cheapest tweaks so far, 😀

 

BTW: The dealer is arranging a few Naim events now where they were asked by the distributor to demo the Naim New Classic 300 series electronics with the Kanta No. 2. I asked why they didn't want the dealer to demo the electronics with the Sopra No. 2 or No. 3 that they also have in the store, but the dealer didn't really know the reason. A guess was to keeping the total system cost down.

 

Saturday update No.2: Acoustical treatment

I got a quick response from an acoustical treatment company. After having looked at a simple 3D model of my room they recommended, apart from tips for speaker and listening position positioning (1650€ in total):

  • Bass traps in back wall corners

  • Bass trap-diffusor-absorber behind listening position

  • Early & First Reflection Point wall absorbers

  • Absorbers behind speakers

 

As mentioned my room is a family living room, so I have to choose my way forward here carefully, mainly with WAF in mind.

To test the concept further I also placed some temporary 8 pieces 0,5x0,5m absorbing panels on chosen locations in the room. Mainly treating first wall reflections and an absorber behind me calmed the sound down. The treble and room reverb is taken down. This makes the midrange appear better and the sound is less fatiguing as well as the sound stage is more precise. As expected. This is really a way forward.

The risk with accepting the whole suggested package above is that it will be too much as I already have a big fabric covered sofa and a big carpet in the room. I believe I will gradually increase the room treatment and evaluate.