Making speakers “disappear”…..


So I’m just setting up my new system and dial it in-

Benchmark AHB2

Benxhmark DAC 3

Totem1 speakers

 

all trial and error here but…..when you guys are dialing in speaker placement do you move them around, closer and further away until the sound doesn’t actually seem that it’s coming from the speakers? So far I’ve found that sitting in a “triangle” - equal distance from the listening position that the speakers are placed apart and so far so good - do you guys do this or have any tips for me on this?

thomastrouble

@thomastrouble 

Most folks know bookshelves pull off the "disappearing act" much easier than floor standers. When they don't it typically means there's something about the room setup (reflections and room modes) that's ruining the illusion.

Changing out any upstream gear (cables included) often requires a fresh examination of speaker placement. I just changed DAC's and that had me moving my speakers 5 inches closer to the rear wall and 6 inches closer to the side walls, with a tad less toe in.

Even with great room setup poor recordings will almost always tell you exactly where your speakers are. It's just something we sentimental people occasionally have to put up with.

Listener position is also a factor, which some forum members have already commented on. I have two positions that I like to bounce back and forth between. The first being the equilateral triangle, which gives me a smoother, more refined presentation. The second being the "89% setup" aka. nearfield. The "89% setup" gives me a more immersive and exciting experience. In my rig my speakers do a great job of disappearing at both listener positions, which should tell you listener position isn't the most critical factor, but nevertheless shouldn't be ignored.

So it's really an alchemy of these five factors (gear/recording quality/room treatment/listening position/speaker placement) that determine whether or not your speakers "disappear", and the only way to achieve this is to experiment. Rules of thumb are great, just don't fall into the trap of any one dogma. The best in the business have spent decades crafting their setup skills. The whole process of exploring what works and what doesn't isn't just about finding the sweet spot (for you), it helps train your ears.

Then there's the whole realm of psychoacoustics to explore, but that's another topic and deserves a good bottle of wine to go with it ; ) 

Happy listening!

Since you are playing around with set up and have endless option make sure you try the off axes corner set up. Almost every room at the audio shows us this method. It contributes to the soundstage and adds a 3d sound.

Don't forget toe-in, which can not only affect imaging but widen the sweet spot. Some speakers sound better below the tweeter axis, and with little to no toe-in.

For me, that vast majority of speakers I've had "disappear" better when I don't toe them in much - i.e. closer to angled straight ahead.   Toe in tends to bring in more image precision, but also tends to tighten up and squeeze the imaging and soundtaging.  Toeing back out loosens things up, expands the soundstage and imaging, and seems to free it more from the speaker.  Sort of like the difference a lot of people hear between a classic solid state amp (heavy toe in) and a classic tube amp (toe out).

@thomastrouble

Oh, one thing….because my room is only 8feet wide I have the speakers closer to the wall than I would like, or if I brought them in two feet each I’m only left with four feet between the speakers !

I have a 12' room and dipoles. Because of room configuration and because it is not a dedicated room, I have the speakers at 4' exactly between the centers (so 4' from both side walls) and 7' from the front wall. I sit at 10'. The imaging is very good (it extends a feet from the outer edges of the speakers) and the soundstage is huge. The speakers have acoustically disappeared. 

So, depending on how much reflections you get on the side, pulling them apart may have a more of a negative impact on the image and soundstage. 

^^^ P.S.: They are toed in at 13 degrees so the "beams" cross about 2' in front of the center seat.