room size question.

i get that toe in plays a part....but if toe in sounds terrible, which i have said it does, then why toe them in ?

if i go wider, then it just sounds like 2 speakers playing and have no center imagining at all.

@bshaw , I don’t make any claims whatsoever to know a whole lot on this subject, but from what you have typed your room, your speakers, and you do not like toe-in. Therefore, I wouldn’t toe them in. As far as the width of the speakers and imaging, it also sounds to me as if you need to space them at a distance where you are hearing a precise center image.

There are some test CDs that have tracks by Doug Sax & Rodger Skoff, and on one of them they do this in phase/out of phase thing: "in phase, my voice should be centered precisely between your two speakers. . . ." and "out of phase, my voice should have no apparent center, no apparent focus, it should sound like it is coming from all around the room, move your speakers a little bit at a time to enhance this effect, the less focus you have when out of phase, the more focus you will have when in phase. . . ." That might be helpful to you.

@bshaw 

That is great you have treated your room. Do you have treatment for the first reflection on the side walls?

My room did not have echo prior to treatment assuming that I thought sounded great. After that, what a considerably big difference. Of course without knowing what the room is doing, we are guessing. I happen to have the tools to do this.

@highend64 

Do you have treatment for the first reflection on the side walls?

yes....that is where the diffusors are at.

@immatthewj 

i have center imagining.....but i am not getting anything more than that.    

if i go wider, then it just sounds like 2 speakers playing and have no center imagining at all.

i have center imagining.....but i am not getting anything more than that. 

 

So no matter the distance you put your speakers at, no happy medium?

Well, two things:

You listed your gear but I am not familiar with any of it (which doesn’t mean anything as a couple of decades ago I quit keeping up on this stuff) but I did find in the decade before, that as I gradually upgraded the electronics in front of my speakers, everything (sonic-wise) got bigger, better, and tighter. I said I have been out of touch for the past two decades and that is true, but over the last three years I did splurge on a new SACD player & a preamp I could not afford and, sonic wise, things are at the best they have ever been. (But, sadly, I am still not having as much fun as I had about 25 years ago.)

Secondly, I read through this entire thread starting yesterday, but I can’t remember if something like this has been proposed, but maybe start over with a clean small equilateral triangle of about 4’ in the CENTER between walls and then start increasing it by equal increments and see if you can find something. Since that equilateral triangle will start out small, keep the back wall clear of gear and obviously no gear between your speakers (everything off to one side). I think I would start out with keeping the rear wall clean as well (if it was me).