Thoughts on the Linn LP12 turntable

@lewm I am unaware of any table from the past, except for the LP12, that has been continually modified over time to compete with the current crop of ’ambitious efforts from others’. To me, this is one of the biggest benefits of LP12 ownership, the consumer will not have to move away from the basic platform and thereby incur loss of investment in order to update the platform. I don’t think you can say that about very many pieces of gear in this hobby, if any.

I take no personal feelings from this discussion one way or the other, I do happen to believe that if one has no experience with the current product and subject of this thread, then putting in one’s 2 cents is very disingenuous, at best. IMHO.

In relation to a TT, The perfect function, in relation to the mechanics and electrics, of any device and ancillaries, does not equate to a user experience that will be attractive and enjoyed by all who encounter such a level of function.

It is the same for a TT and ancillaries that are with identifiable shortcomings in the area of mechanics and electrics, for some, and most likely a large proportion of users who encounter such a TT, it will not equate to a user experience that has an attraction or is enjoyed.

The is no right or wrong way to meet the middle ground and above where there is a condition present, that does create an attraction and enjoyment for the user.

What is the goal of the investigation?                                                                          Is one looking of the LP replay that is most engaging and stimulating?

Is one looking for the outcome, where they feel there choices, have produced the most accurate assembly to allow for the optimisation function of the entirety of the  parts?

There are some who go on a quest to discover something that is new and notable, where just a simple change of a drive mechanism is enough, or an alternative drive mechanism or change of an ancillary has been adequate and improved over the  others that have been experienced prior to any new experiences.

I myself have been an individual who has shared in the former description of a experience. I have also been an individual who has shared for a longer duration in the latter description of a experience. 

There are the types who will require a whole lot of interrogating a set up for a TT, adding and removing Support Structures, Drive Mechanisms and Ancillaries, to find their attractor and place of enjoyment.

For these types, their is always an analysis not too far away, as well as a judgement.

What really matters in the end is not ones personal journey and experiences encountered, but how they accept the experiences of others, it is quite important to embrace another's notification, that they have discovered their happy place with the use of certain TT and ancillaries. The search does need to have an end, it is not necessary for it to be continuous.

Some will not wish to go on to reach such endeavours that others have, and are in my view quite fortunate to have settled contentedly with their made discoveries.

I have been sharing in the journey's of others and their experiences as seen on Lenco Heaven, where some contributors are totally content with a Basic Model, maybe a little TLC and a aesthetic change, others are content to settle with a Serviced Model and through to where there are to be seen a complete rethink for the mounting of the original parts to function as a TT.

What is witnessed on LH, is nothing new and can be seen as comparative trend with other Drives and Brands of TT's, albeit, maybe with a little less DIY involved to produce the changes being made. 

In no way am I implying there is anything lacking in the choices made, it is great that individuals have found a place of enjoyment and stimulus that offers a happiness, without needing to extend to the lengths that others have gone on to, over a long period of time with much fiddling. 

Not everybody needs to be adorned with the appraisal offered for winning a Grand Prix, to be able to claim their driving is a 'Job Well Done'.         

As I had eluded to in my earlier post... I think that we (as vinyl lovers) should all feel extremely blessed that we have such a plethora of tables/arms/cartridges/phono stages available to us at virtually every price point that allows almost any music lover the ability to spin records and enjoy their music collection.

I believe that there is an awful lot that goes into making a system reproduce the recorded music in an enjoyable way. Notice, I said "system". It’s so much more than just a turntable. It’s having a power supply that can keep a steady speed and stable pitch. It’s finding an arm that complements said table as well as matches your cartridge. It’s finding a phono stage that does an admirable job of amplifying that tiny little signal and that can pass it along to your pre and amplifier as unmolested as possible so that your loudspeakers can transduce it all into something that can immerse yourself and touch your soul in a very special way.

I have a very large collection of records, recorded in both mono and stereo. My LP12 only accommodates one arm and I have my Benz Ruby Zebrawood cartridge mounted to it.

I’ve been contemplating lately of adding another table to my system... using one table for mono and the other for stereo. So, I went to my local audio dealer to have a listen to what they might have - with open ears and an open mind.

I listened to the AMG Viella Forte 12 Turbo ( $30,000 for just the table and arm ); Lyra Atlas Lambda cartridge ($12,000); SimAudio 610LP solid state phono ($8500) - this was being used as their Audio Research Ref3SE was currently out on home audition; Audio Research Reference 6SE tubed linestage ($18,000); Audio Research Reference 160S Stereo tubed amplifier ($22,000); all feeding the Sonus Faber Olyimpica Nova III ($15,000) all totaling roughly $106,000 before sales taxes!!!

We spent the afternoon spinning various records ranging from jazz ballades to hard bop, to big band, to classical. A great range of recordings, all hand selected by the salesman.

So, how did it sound??? I felt that the AMG Forte, Turbo Arm and cartridge did a great job of keeping the speed stable, had good drive and dynamics - kept my foot tapping 😀. However, listening to the entirety of the system as a whole.... I was underwhelmed. It sounded like a relatively good stereo system, but nothing more. It didn’t touch my soul.... it didn’t move me in an emotional way... it didn’t make me think - Damn, I’ve gotta have this!!! It didn’t do anything to make me feel like I wanted to stay there and keep listening for hours and hours.

I came home and started spinning selections from my collection. Wowza!!! My system just keeps drawing me in! It sounds like the musicians are here with me... 3 dimensional, living and breathing, flesh and blood performing just for me!!! It gets right at my emotions and truly touches my soul. It’s dynamic, the sound is full, natural, and organic. My system keeps me listening for several hours on end making me want to pull out record after record... to the point that my wife is yelling to me "...are you going to come up to bed???"

Isn’t this what it’s all about??? I can say without a doubt, it is for me!!! Granted, I didn’t listen to the AMG combo in "my" system. Would it perform well in my system? Probably. Would it do better than my LP12 rig in my system? Maybe? BUT, and this is a BIG BUT..... Do I feel I need it to do any better than my LP12 rig??? Absolutely not!!! I am in absolute BLISS right now listening to my "system" even with what some of the forum Linn haters would say is nothing more than a "polished turd”; “ the Linn LP12 is a flimsy cheap implemented table that Rates as midi gear. Compared to the class A standards is laughable;” …. and yet, I feel like I’m in heaven and having the time of my life right now.

How can this be??? Is it all in my head? Am I a delusional cultist? Is it just me that could possible garner this much enjoyment from this analog rig? Clearly, I’m not the only one as was testified by Pani, "the LP12 bested the AVID Acutus by the ears of many listeners. Herb Reichert said the Linn LP12 compared favorably to his Dr. Feickert and others and seemed to feel it was still at the upper echelon of performance! Go take a visit over to the Naim forum and you’ll see many people who love the LP12.

So, why didn’t the above $106,000 system not move me? I’m not saying it was the AMG table/arm that was at fault at all. Maybe the cartridge didn’t transduce the signal to “my" liking? Maybe the Simaudio 610LP, while reportedly is good sounding for a solid state design seemed a little too threadbare or two-dimensional to me… it could have been anything or a number of things. That’s why I said earlier… getting enjoyable sound reproduction is so much more than just the table. it takes a whole entire system/room/recording etc to get the job done. My LP12 rig definitely gets the job done in MY system and that’s what’s important to me.

So, to the Original Poster - If you have an interest in the LP12…. don’t let the naysayers sway you. It’s worth your time to go listen to it with your own ears, with an open mind and judge for yourself. Does it touch your soul and emotions? Does it make you want to rediscover your vinyl collection and listen for hours on end? If it does, great! If not, keep looking and you will find something, as there are a lot of great options out there to be had.

Wishing you all the very best,

Don

P.S.  I would also like to add that the above mentioned establishment that I had the pleasure of visiting today was completely AAA+.  Very friendly and welcoming.  I enjoyed my visit with them very much today.  They have excellent products in many price ranges and I would be very happy to purchase from them and I feel blessed to have them so close by.

Unless I’m mistaken, Ivor Tiefenbaum designed the original LP12 to minimize relative movement between the stylus and the record’s surface. This required identical suspension loading and damping at each corner of the turntable’s platter suspension, a rigid connection between the platter and the arm board, and arm board suspensions which matched the loading and damping of the platter’s. The consequently precise setup procedure requires technical expertise and a model specific jig which are beyond the scope of most audiphiles’ capabilities.

I invested ~$7k in a vintage ’90s LP12 equipped with an Akita 3 Tonearm and a Linn Krystal MC cartridge--each designed to complement the ballistics of the other. And the sound quality of my set up is the best I could ever hope for, even compared to current LP playback systems that cost twice as much as mine did. That’s why I agree with a great many audiophiles and published critics that the Linn LP12’s design is timeless, not a relic of the past to be discounted as such.

FWIW, I wouldn’t hesitate to make the same (ahem) "mistake" again.

BTW: I’m one of those impractical hipsters who actually enjoys the multifaceted ritual of LP playback, notwithstanding the accurate reproduction of the ultrasonic emotional and sound staging cues I hear in live music of which only high-quality analogue systems are capable. But I’m just an old geezer who loves live music more than just about about anything.

Well, I certainly didn’t expect to get the plethora of responses to my original post as I did. One thing I can say, audiophiles are extremely passionate about their hobby!

😎