Thoughts on the Linn LP12 turntable

Honestly,  I have to laugh at all the naysayers of the Linn LP12 that seem to just keep regurgitating the same old mis-information.

The LP12 IS a great table!  Why is it perfectly acceptable for other turntable manufacturers to be allowed to make upgrades/improvements to their designs/products (which always leads to increased prices), but not acceptable for the Linn LP12???  I believe it is because some people have a biased hatred toward the LP12, no matter how good it sounds and performs. These people simply will not allow themselves to listen with open ears and minds. And more than likely they don't listen to any of them at all, period.  Their loss, but when they perpetuate this on the forums, it can mislead others and then sadly it becomes their loss as well.

Daveyf made a great point.... spend an afternoon with Peter at Cymbosis.  He is a great man, a true gentleman and an asset to the audiophile community.  Go with an open mind, not with a biased agenda and truly listen.... I think you may come away with a new awareness and appreciation.

I love my LP12.  I am not just an audiophile, but I am also a musician, playing the tenor and bass trombones in jazz venues and my Montagnana cello in classical venues.  I have a great ear for tone, pitch, intonation, timing etc. and if anything is "off" it would drive me absolutely crazy!

I can say that my LP12 keeps incredible speed which is one of the most important tasks of any turntable!  It is incredibly transparent!  I can easily hear the difference in cables, swapping of vacuum tubes, the difference in record pressings, etc. It has great tone, micro and macro dynamics and detail... but all in a very natural and organic way, just as I hear in live acoustic music.... which I hear several times a week!  

I can just hear mijostyn saying... this is blasphemy!  For crying out loud, he is using a uni-pivot for God's sake.  Yes, I'm using the Naim ARO with my Benz Ruby S Zebra Wood cartridge, and it is sublime!

Years ago, there was a Linn Dealer in Chicago.  They had several LP12's set up in their showroom that allowed us to compare the difference in sound between the Valhalla and Lingo power supplies, the Ittok/Ekos tonearms, etc and you could easily hear the differences.  I was also able to compare the differences with the Naim ARO to the Linn Arms and the Naim power supply to the Linn supplies as well as the Pink Triangle DC supplies.  If the LP12 was such a wreck of a table, I shouldn't been able to hear any differences, but the differences were huge and important.

When people say that the LP12 is too fussy to set up and always needs to be fiddled with.... total BS.  Set it up right and it stays right!

There are a lot of happy people with Linn LP12's....  Why don't you hear more from them on these forums??? Because they are too busy spinning vinyl and enjoying their music collection to be bothered with this nonsense dribble!!!

So, in closing.... These are great times for us vinyl lovers!  There are many great tables, arms, cartridges  and phono stages to be had.  Go out and listen with an open mind - without any set bias and I think you will find that the LP12 can present music in a very enjoyable and moving way.

Best wishes to all!  Now, it's time for me to get back to my listening enjoyment :)

Don

Linn LP12/Naim ARO/Benz RubyS Zebrawood, Wavestream Kinetics Reference Level 5.1 Phono, Presence Audio Line Stage, Bel Canto SET40 Single Ended 845 Triodes, Dunlavy SCIV's Signature Loudspeakers, lifetime supply of NOS Mullards, Tele's, etc for all of my tubed equipment.

@lewm  Yes, you are absolutely correct.  I should remember not to post on forums when I'm overtired 🤣.  Thank you for the correction.

Best wishes,

Don

As I had eluded to in my earlier post... I think that we (as vinyl lovers) should all feel extremely blessed that we have such a plethora of tables/arms/cartridges/phono stages available to us at virtually every price point that allows almost any music lover the ability to spin records and enjoy their music collection.

I believe that there is an awful lot that goes into making a system reproduce the recorded music in an enjoyable way. Notice, I said "system". It’s so much more than just a turntable. It’s having a power supply that can keep a steady speed and stable pitch. It’s finding an arm that complements said table as well as matches your cartridge. It’s finding a phono stage that does an admirable job of amplifying that tiny little signal and that can pass it along to your pre and amplifier as unmolested as possible so that your loudspeakers can transduce it all into something that can immerse yourself and touch your soul in a very special way.

I have a very large collection of records, recorded in both mono and stereo. My LP12 only accommodates one arm and I have my Benz Ruby Zebrawood cartridge mounted to it.

I’ve been contemplating lately of adding another table to my system... using one table for mono and the other for stereo. So, I went to my local audio dealer to have a listen to what they might have - with open ears and an open mind.

I listened to the AMG Viella Forte 12 Turbo ( $30,000 for just the table and arm ); Lyra Atlas Lambda cartridge ($12,000); SimAudio 610LP solid state phono ($8500) - this was being used as their Audio Research Ref3SE was currently out on home audition; Audio Research Reference 6SE tubed linestage ($18,000); Audio Research Reference 160S Stereo tubed amplifier ($22,000); all feeding the Sonus Faber Olyimpica Nova III ($15,000) all totaling roughly $106,000 before sales taxes!!!

We spent the afternoon spinning various records ranging from jazz ballades to hard bop, to big band, to classical. A great range of recordings, all hand selected by the salesman.

So, how did it sound??? I felt that the AMG Forte, Turbo Arm and cartridge did a great job of keeping the speed stable, had good drive and dynamics - kept my foot tapping 😀. However, listening to the entirety of the system as a whole.... I was underwhelmed. It sounded like a relatively good stereo system, but nothing more. It didn’t touch my soul.... it didn’t move me in an emotional way... it didn’t make me think - Damn, I’ve gotta have this!!! It didn’t do anything to make me feel like I wanted to stay there and keep listening for hours and hours.

I came home and started spinning selections from my collection. Wowza!!! My system just keeps drawing me in! It sounds like the musicians are here with me... 3 dimensional, living and breathing, flesh and blood performing just for me!!! It gets right at my emotions and truly touches my soul. It’s dynamic, the sound is full, natural, and organic. My system keeps me listening for several hours on end making me want to pull out record after record... to the point that my wife is yelling to me "...are you going to come up to bed???"

Isn’t this what it’s all about??? I can say without a doubt, it is for me!!! Granted, I didn’t listen to the AMG combo in "my" system. Would it perform well in my system? Probably. Would it do better than my LP12 rig in my system? Maybe? BUT, and this is a BIG BUT..... Do I feel I need it to do any better than my LP12 rig??? Absolutely not!!! I am in absolute BLISS right now listening to my "system" even with what some of the forum Linn haters would say is nothing more than a "polished turd”; “ the Linn LP12 is a flimsy cheap implemented table that Rates as midi gear. Compared to the class A standards is laughable;” …. and yet, I feel like I’m in heaven and having the time of my life right now.

How can this be??? Is it all in my head? Am I a delusional cultist? Is it just me that could possible garner this much enjoyment from this analog rig? Clearly, I’m not the only one as was testified by Pani, "the LP12 bested the AVID Acutus by the ears of many listeners. Herb Reichert said the Linn LP12 compared favorably to his Dr. Feickert and others and seemed to feel it was still at the upper echelon of performance! Go take a visit over to the Naim forum and you’ll see many people who love the LP12.

So, why didn’t the above $106,000 system not move me? I’m not saying it was the AMG table/arm that was at fault at all. Maybe the cartridge didn’t transduce the signal to “my" liking? Maybe the Simaudio 610LP, while reportedly is good sounding for a solid state design seemed a little too threadbare or two-dimensional to me… it could have been anything or a number of things. That’s why I said earlier… getting enjoyable sound reproduction is so much more than just the table. it takes a whole entire system/room/recording etc to get the job done. My LP12 rig definitely gets the job done in MY system and that’s what’s important to me.

So, to the Original Poster - If you have an interest in the LP12…. don’t let the naysayers sway you. It’s worth your time to go listen to it with your own ears, with an open mind and judge for yourself. Does it touch your soul and emotions? Does it make you want to rediscover your vinyl collection and listen for hours on end? If it does, great! If not, keep looking and you will find something, as there are a lot of great options out there to be had.

Wishing you all the very best,

Don

P.S.  I would also like to add that the above mentioned establishment that I had the pleasure of visiting today was completely AAA+.  Very friendly and welcoming.  I enjoyed my visit with them very much today.  They have excellent products in many price ranges and I would be very happy to purchase from them and I feel blessed to have them so close by.

OP.  

Yes, you are correct... audiophiles can be very passionate about this hobby in many ways....

Vinyl vs Digital

Single bit vs Multibit vs NOS

Red book vs Hi-Res upsampling

CD vs Streaming

Belt drive vs Rim drive vs Direct drive

Spring loaded vs Mass loaded

Unipivot vs Gimbled

Pivoted vs Linear tracking

Tube vs Solid State

Single ended vs push pull vs Class A, A/B, D

Full Range vs Floor Standers vs Stand mounted

Dynamic vs Panar/Ribbon Speakers

Multi Driver vs Single Driver

Certainly there are a lot of topics that can be discussed and debated. We all have our own set of ears and we all hear things as we hear things. We all have certain aspects of sound reproduction that are important to us. Whether it is tone, pitch dynamics, soundstage, etc What is important to one, may or may not be important to another.

However, with all of the things that we have to discuss... I have rarely found a single product that has been as vocally polarizing as the Linn LP12. As of this post we are basically at 50/50 with 19 members showing appreciation for the LP12 and 20 members who feel that it has been left in the dust.

There are a lot of products that are highly touted and are popular. But all too often, in time, many fall out of favor for the next best flavor of the month. Not to mention, go out of business.

One thing I can say for sure is that my Linn LP12 has given me many years of musical enjoyment, has been able to continue to improve with various upgrades and has been in business for many decades.

Best wishes to all,

Don

@hipsterjefe  So very true!  And I'm sure your walnut plinth looks absolutely beautiful!  I wish there was an easy way to post pictures on this forum (when it comes to computers I'm somewhat challenged, lol... I'd love to see your finished results 😁 

Best wishes,

Don

I don't see a....."pathetic sort of wood base stapled together at the corners" here with my LP12.

Nor do I see... "The tiny little dink of a motor that I can stall with a Q tip" here either!

The one on the left is my current swiss motor, the one on the right is from decades ago.  Huge difference!

As has been said many times and again... the LP12 has been updated and improved from the decades of old and is quite capable of reproducing very beautiful and emotionally engaging music.

And as long as I have finally figured out how to post photos on this forum, here a few pic's of the rest of my system.

My Wavestream Kinetics Deluxe Reference Level 5.1 all tube phono stage with outboard power supply...

And a pic of the rest of this system that utilizes my LP12.  But when I really want to "make" music... take note of my cello and one of my trombones in the corner.

Wishing you all the very best,

Don

@edcyn 

Thank you so much! You are very kind ☺

Best wishes,

Don

@mijostyn  you say "No amount of wishful thinking or modification is going to make the LP 12 representative of what a modern intermediate priced turntable can do. The Avid Acutus, SME, Sota and Basis turntables all are definitive improvements over the LP 12. The LP 12's day were done with the release of the original Sota Sapphire, never to return."

Clearly you didn't bother to read @pani  post when he said on 6/26/22 "In a shootout at one of the London's audio store the fully kitted LP12 bested an Avid Acutus. Many listeners in the room preferred the LP12. So it is not an easy TT to dismiss even in the latest context"  This was a direct shootout with the Avid Acutus that your have on you list.

You also must have missed the post of @krameshmurthy on 6/24/22 when he said.... "I had been using a SOTA Sapphire for many years but found a decently priced used LP12 (circa 1990) last year. As someone who likes to tinker, I took the time to upgrade the motor and control (dual speed) and tune the table. Once I properly installed my cartridge, I was extremely amazed at the how much better this table was than my SOTA- quieter background, phenomenal dynamic range and outstanding soundstage. I do see all the “naysayers” but in my system, the LP12 is staying. I like the fact that I can continue to upgrade it as time goes by. In fairness, I haven’t had any of the newer higher end turntables (don’t have any need at this point), but I wouldn’t dismiss the LP12."  Yet again, another comparison to the SOTA Saphire which is also on your list.

You might have not noticed when @daveyf said on 6/24/22 "The current LP12 Klimax model had a good review recently by Herb Reichert in Stereophile. Herb compared it favorably to his Dr.Feickert and others and seemed to feel it was still at the upper echelon of performance!"

Clearly, for whatever reason, the LP12 has been a very polarizing table over the years.  It would seem by simply viewing this thread alone, that there are just as many people who are enamored by the LP12 as there are that are not. Roughly 20 members for and 20 members against, with roughly 8 members that are neutral on the subject.

I have never said the Linn LP12 is the "end all / be all" turntable of all tables. However, I and many others do believe that it has come a long way from it's original inception...benefitting from advances in technologies over the years to the top plate, frame, sub-chassis, bearings, motor, power supplies, etc... (just as many other turntable manufacturers have benefitted as well over the years).  I, and others, happen to believe the new LP12's can still compare very favorably with the other modern offerings of today.

Again, as I have said so many times... we are all blessed to have so many analog choices to choose from in this day and age, from tables/arms/cartridges/phonostages, etc.  There are great offerings from many manufacturers at many different price points so that virtually anyone can enjoy their vinyl collections.  

So, to the OP, what's important is to go out and listen to as many options as possible... but I urge you to do so with an open mind and without any pre-conceived notions, and simply let your ears decide what will work well for you and your system.

Best wishes to all,

Don

@mijostyn It would seem, by your own admission, "....I have used them all and the LP 12 is an antique. Its days ended in 1980."  .... that you are still stuck back in 1980 and that with all the improvements and developments that have been implemented over the last 42 years, you seem to refused to believe that the LP12 has advanced beyond that point of over 4 decades ago.  

Well, you are certainly entitled to your opinions.  However, I will put more weight on the opinions of those whom I have quoted in my last post who have actually not only listened to current model LP12's, but have also compared them head to head with well respected modern day alternatives (some of which were on your list, no less) as well as my own ears and judgement.

@slaw  I, for one, can certainly believe that what your ears heard from your friend's updated LP12 was indeed impressive.  I'm glad that you were able to listen with an open mind and without a biased judgement.

Best wishes to all,

Don

The comment "It's suspension design is inherently unstable and if it is not on a supremely stable surface it will skip easily. Footfall issues are legion with this turntable. A little bump will cause a skip...."

The above statement can be said of virtually any table.  It is accepted by most audiophiles that to get the best performance out of almost any turntable, no matter it's design (whether it's suspended or mass loaded, etc.) that you must use a proper base or stand under the table.  

As shown in the photo below, I use a wall shelf that is attached to the studs of a load bearing wall for a proper support for my LP12.  My wife and I can quite literally dance, jump up and down, etc right in front of the turntable and it will not skip a beat.  It plays rock solid and completely undisturbed.

@photomax  I agree with everything you have said in your post above. Very well said.

Best wishes to all,

Don

@ghdprentice  Thank you so much for your very kind words!

Best wishes,

Don