McIntosh -- good for show, not for sound, says dealer


More unvarnished truth from YouTube.
"real audiophiles...know it doesn't sound that good"

https://youtu.be/sMUQqAagKm0?t=181

Real audiophiles -- be aware. You've been read the Riot Act. 

Discuss.

128x128hilde45

Took a couple days off social media. I see things are still going.

Reviewing the video and this thread, it’s clear that the video is not really about McIntosh. Jay (who made his own video about McInstosh) missed the what I think is the main point in OCD’s video. What is that point? Well, he’s advising people about how to sort out what to buy.

He begins by sorting audiophiles into two exclusive groups.

His first distinction, quoting the video here, is this "split:":

"You’re either a guy for display or you’re a guy for sonic and you don’t care about display." He continues, "Are you someone who you want something that visually is striking so that when people come over to your place to listen they’re visually arrested by the look of your rig and they’re awestruck by how grandiose it is okay or how beautiful it is or how amazing it is?"

If you’re about how things look, he has an example:

A "perfect example [is] macintosh, okay. You guys know that it’s a brand I don’t really like because I just don’t think it sounds that good; I think it’s overpriced."

And people who like looks are wowed by it. Ok, so it just seems at this point like one person’s opinion.

But, then he makes the sweeping claim:

"For people that are in hi-fi, we look at it and we’re like ‘Oh cute little green LED, that’s pretty kitschy,’ you know; ‘Oh that’s nice,’ you know. But I get where the market segment is -- it’s [McIntosh] not really...for the audiophile. I think macintosh is for the person that wants to *show* that they’re an audiophile; they want people to *recognize* them *as* an audiophile through a visual cue -- which means people that don’t know crap about hi-fi, okay? Because people that really know about hi-fi look at McIntosh -- the ones that [are] real audiophiles -- we know it doesn’t sound that good."

Who is McIntosh for, then? McIntosh is good, he says,

"for people that don’t really know, okay? For people that...are in their infancy of their hi-fi that aren’t real audiophiles but they’ve just started hi-fi; they’re going to be impressed because they know how much that [McIntosh gear] costs; the first level of person has no idea what it even is -- they’re going to be blown away by how it looks [but in fact] they have no clue."

But this is not just about McIntosh hate. That’s too simple. It’s about creating two categories — those who are fooled by looks and don’t understand what good sound is, and those who manage to get past superficial looks (and price). This is a video for people who are confused and need guidance. They want to hear good sound and they need a guru. This categorization is the first lesson being offered by this guru. It’s not a question of one internet dude's opinion. He is arguing for a fundamental dualism — looks vs. sounds. And those who accept that dualism will trust the guy who taught it to them. (And maybe buy his gear.)

This is also not just about McIntosh. It’s an Us-Them rhetoric, and all such rhetoric needs examples. McIntosh is just the first and easiest example to support the dubitable claim that there are (only) two kinds of audiophiles (the visually-mesmerized and the sonically-enlightened.) But then he adds in other brands. He mentions Focal,Wilson, Magico, too. About these brands he says,

"Man, they have the visual nailed, but they do not have the audio nailed." They are among, he says, "these visual brands for people that have elegant homes" filled with people where, "you’re the big man you know sitting in front of this gorgeous thing."

This is why this video is interesting (to me). It’s not about McIntosh at all. It’s about whether there are two kinds of audiophiles, whether looks and sonics are mutually exclusive, and (at the meta-level) whether dealers who advance these kinds of characterization about these dilemmas are operating in service of the hobby or just in service of their wedge into the business of the hobby.

@hilde45 

I agree with your analysis of the video. Again, I apologize for previous comments in this thread that were typed way too quickly.

I’ve actually received criticism by members of this site because I stated the design aesthetics of the equipment I purchase is actually important to me. To some people that was proof that I am not a real “audiophile”. Honestly, I never use that word to describe myself. I am in this hobby because I listen to music all the time. Listening to music actually helps me keep my personal “spectrum” issues under control. To me this idea of there being a “correct audiophile” and an “incorrect audiophile” is an ugly side of this hobby I never knew existed until coming to this forum. I know not everyone here is that way, but there is a percentage that thinks like this. This reminds me of the Dr. Seuss book “The Sneetches”. 

OP you see and hear a lot from a person that I can't get past what I AM seeing and hearing. It's simple the guy just turns me OFF. Terms like MiFi and Mcintosh in the same sentence and then infer a lack of knowledge if people disagree. 

I've heard the same CRAP my whole life about Mcintosh. To make blanket statements about a product that is as different as Mcintosh is saying he has heard even a portion of the Macs through the years. I'd really really doubt it. Kind of like the guy here on AG that compares all the amps. Unless I'm looking for a spelling of a product. I can't really see a value. I did find it strange that they finally found the Holy Grail or so they say. Sure a lot of information to sort through.

Is one product the best? I don't think so. Are all the amps tested still there for testing? How can you compare a product from 5 years ago, today, without the product to compare it against.

If I set up a room, very few could tell the difference between my 2k and a others 20k amp SQ wise.  I could roll a set of valves a 100 ways with the amps I use. Most would KNOW I swapped amps. Some would swear it's SS others would know it's not and a few wouldn't give a hoot. "It just sounds good". Mcintosh sound has changed as much as the tech that have rebuilt the millions of Mcintosh pieces through the years.. Very few use the same parts so the sound is as different as the parts they use. 

BTW all Ford products are the same. 63 Ford Falcon, 2022 Lincoln Navigator, they look and sound just alike.

Mac's MidFi? I guess I'll just have to settle. :-)

Regards

@femoore12

I’ve actually received criticism by members of this site because I stated the design aesthetics of the equipment I purchase is actually important to me.

First off, we’re good. I appreciate your kind words.

Next, the (video author’s) notion that how something looks and sounds are completely distinct -- indeed, unrelated -- is a ridiculous move (and it is a move).

Has he ever eaten a meal that was well-presented (or "plated" as they say in the biz)? Of course looks matter. Aesthetic experience involves the whole person. No one ever complains if a stereo makes you tap your toes, right? So, motor senses like touch are relevant to audio but not sight? How many audiophiles should be dissed for their lava lamps or their lighting because clearly (the idiot logic goes) that is evidence they don’t really care about the sound? None. None should be dissed.

People who love cars get it. Form AND function can go together. And a company that can produce really great functioning cars can put that talent into their form, too. It’s not necessarily a sign that they’ve diverted precious resources away from the function side, right? Well that’s another claim made by the video author.

Are there charlatans that are only about looks? Sure. Do con-jobs happen with looks? Hello, trophy-wife or trophy-husband! But the notion that IF there are good looks, THEN there is inadequate attention to the content is (as I said) a rhetorical gambit meant to sucker in the confused. You are not suckered, nor am I!

@oldhevymec's comment about the author's appearance reminds me of Nietzsche's comment about Socrates.

"In origin, Socrates belonged to the lowest class: Socrates was plebs. We know, we can still see for ourselves, how ugly he was. But ugliness, in itself an objection, is among the Greeks almost a refutation. ... And Socrates merely answered: "You know me, sir!"

 

I use to own MC601 mono blocks and matching preamp C52 with klipsch speakers never ever sounds good or no synergy at all I sold them bought Parasound A21+ and P6 and here we go everything sounds right 

my wife love the looks on Macintosh and she always giving me a compliments with Parasound she don’t care 🤷‍♀️ 

since then I own a lot of power amps  JC1, JC5,SIMAUDIO MOON, CLASSE CA2300 Plinius 103 and more but anthem STR amp I use to own also sound dead code with my speakers 

matching right amp to right speakers is super important