Is Rap a valid musical form?


This has been way more than the progression away from tubes to SS!

Believe the world of Hip Hop has been around and evolving for around 5 decades.

And for most of that time I have dismissed and avoided that world and its “music”.

So angry, offensive and abrasive. Just a bunch of rhythmic yelling.

I believe my former thread was titled “Why Rap?”.  Through that discussion and somewhat of an understanding that this must be a new art form that engages and entertains millions if not billions. That and a long standing belief that if a type of music or a particular artist attracts many, many fans there must be substance and quality there. Even if I personally don’t particularly like it there must be something there.

Rap and the Hip Hop world was always so foreign and culturally untouchable.

Then my Rap thread and several others at that time got me rethinking my perspective and I watched a video of a group of student performance musicians at Juilliard all exclaiming their fascination with a Rap artist named Kendrick Lemar and his “masterpiece” “To Pimp a Butterfly”. I bought the double LP. Trying to listen to it turned out to be difficult because of my old view of Rap and that of the world of Hip Hop. But it was also becoming clear that this was truly something of significant interest. However, I just listened to the two discs only once-with some difficulty.

Today, after several weeks, I hesitatingly pulled the album out again. And to my surprise and actually delight hearing it with fresh ears it grabbed me and would not let go. I immediately heard the brilliance of a multi faceted, and to me, all new experience in sound. Not unlike great 20th century or progressive Jazz it evolved from section to section with a plethora of fascinating, yes musical, experiences. Tonal, atonal, percussive, rhythmic, breathing combined with incredible, energetic tongue twisting strings of mostly unintelligible words. And not merely angry yelling.

Sure, a ton of F bombs but words that don’t flow over you like lovely other genres but invade the psyche and don’t let go. Not particularly pleasant but gripping and interesting in its complexity. Words delivered with such power and drive which acted as a rhythmic counterpoint. It was impossible to turn away or turn off. 
And speaking of turned off, the experience was the opposite of that. Stories of life undeniable human. Yes, driven by bitterness, anger and raw emotion. Impossible to  dismiss it as not deeply felt.

I do think “To Pimp a Butterfly” is unique. But I also believe that there must be much more in this Hip Hop world that has deep musical interest. Some time ago I heard Drake on SNL perform a song that was amazing though not really Rap. Rather an advanced and unconventional musical form. I hear similar musical threads throughout “Pimp”. I did get a CD of Drake. “Scorpion”. I also could not absorb it in my first listen. I look forward to the next, fresh listen. I did try to hear several YouTubes of some very successful Rap artists. They mostly lacked the interesting musical themes threaded through. “Pure Rap” with just the rhythmic words-not my cup of tea. But a musically valid form none the less.

 

 

mglik

I'm 70 and I like rap/hip-hop/edm, and other forms of contemporary music; I'd guess that more than a few of the original thinkers here saying 'rap is crap' (how witty!) or something similar are a good bit younger than me, so can we please lay off of the age-ist stuff?

'Boomers' or 'geezers' do not have a monopoly on this attitude, and many 'boomers' do not share that attitude at all.... 

@jonwatches1 - Noooooobody expects the Spanish Inquisition! 🤣

@jonwatches1:

Look-- when you make preposterous assertions, chances are, you'll elicit less than charitable  responses. 

Could I have been more polite? Yes, but but you were already on a roll, building upon your frankly absurd comparison between Mayer and Garcia. 

I'm not by nature a combative guy. 

You want to talk about personal tastes? Fine. 

You want to talk about craft and musicianship? Great. 

You want to insist they're one and the same? 

I'm not your guy. 

 

 

Johnwatches1.......for something New.....try LEENALCHEE........ Probably the best introduction is on YouTube....." The Tiger is Coming" ......it is a blend of ancient Korean shamanistic folk songs....with a " modern" rhythm section.....I am such a geezer that I don' t really know how to post a link .... But look on YouTube for the video where they have the dance troupe with them.......also the CD is on Spotify....it was independent CD of the year in Korea last year.

@atlvalet:

"A lot of you old blokes are doing it wrong. You’re trying to listen to hip hop through your single ended triode amps. What trash. Get yourself an 80’s era boom box, put that on your shoulder, and strut around your retirement community flexing the classic hip hop jams"

Thanks for the humor!  

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I will reiterate what I said earlier.

My dislike for rap is purely, 100% based on its lack of musical merit. What I mean by lack of musical merit, is it lacks the things I look for in music.

The things it lack are: a very high level of musicianship, complexity (time signatures, chord progressions, harmonies, interplay between musicians, etc), deep and broad range of emotional and intellectual content, avoidance of verse>chorus>bridge structure.

If music does not have all or most of the above attributes, I find it: boring, trite, predictable. It's not like I chose what I like in music, it's just the way I am.

As far as I am concerned, pop: most mainstream rock, most country, lacks musical merit for the same reasons rap does. So, I am not singling out rap.

Just so you know, I am not someone yelling "get off my lawn" at rappers, there are other modern forms of music (even more recent than rap) that I am a fan of. Technical-metal, for example. But then, tech-metal has most of those attributes I mentioned above that I like in music.