Is Rap a valid musical form?
This has been way more than the progression away from tubes to SS!
Believe the world of Hip Hop has been around and evolving for around 5 decades.
And for most of that time I have dismissed and avoided that world and its “music”.
So angry, offensive and abrasive. Just a bunch of rhythmic yelling.
I believe my former thread was titled “Why Rap?”. Through that discussion and somewhat of an understanding that this must be a new art form that engages and entertains millions if not billions. That and a long standing belief that if a type of music or a particular artist attracts many, many fans there must be substance and quality there. Even if I personally don’t particularly like it there must be something there.
Rap and the Hip Hop world was always so foreign and culturally untouchable.
Then my Rap thread and several others at that time got me rethinking my perspective and I watched a video of a group of student performance musicians at Juilliard all exclaiming their fascination with a Rap artist named Kendrick Lemar and his “masterpiece” “To Pimp a Butterfly”. I bought the double LP. Trying to listen to it turned out to be difficult because of my old view of Rap and that of the world of Hip Hop. But it was also becoming clear that this was truly something of significant interest. However, I just listened to the two discs only once-with some difficulty.
Today, after several weeks, I hesitatingly pulled the album out again. And to my surprise and actually delight hearing it with fresh ears it grabbed me and would not let go. I immediately heard the brilliance of a multi faceted, and to me, all new experience in sound. Not unlike great 20th century or progressive Jazz it evolved from section to section with a plethora of fascinating, yes musical, experiences. Tonal, atonal, percussive, rhythmic, breathing combined with incredible, energetic tongue twisting strings of mostly unintelligible words. And not merely angry yelling.
Sure, a ton of F bombs but words that don’t flow over you like lovely other genres but invade the psyche and don’t let go. Not particularly pleasant but gripping and interesting in its complexity. Words delivered with such power and drive which acted as a rhythmic counterpoint. It was impossible to turn away or turn off.
And speaking of turned off, the experience was the opposite of that. Stories of life undeniable human. Yes, driven by bitterness, anger and raw emotion. Impossible to dismiss it as not deeply felt.
I do think “To Pimp a Butterfly” is unique. But I also believe that there must be much more in this Hip Hop world that has deep musical interest. Some time ago I heard Drake on SNL perform a song that was amazing though not really Rap. Rather an advanced and unconventional musical form. I hear similar musical threads throughout “Pimp”. I did get a CD of Drake. “Scorpion”. I also could not absorb it in my first listen. I look forward to the next, fresh listen. I did try to hear several YouTubes of some very successful Rap artists. They mostly lacked the interesting musical themes threaded through. “Pure Rap” with just the rhythmic words-not my cup of tea. But a musically valid form none the less.
@jonwatches1 - 'Jerry Garcia is just a folksinger who got lucky'? That's the funniest thing I've read this year so far! 🤣🤣🤣 And yes, I love the Dead too, but I sure ain't buyin' THAT!
@atlvalet - I'm 70 and totally enjoy hip-hop, rap, punk, post-punk, etc etc. so maybe all 'boomers' ain't the same, yeah? |
@jonwatches1 - Hah! Nothing wrong with a little old time sacreligion! Dunno what the criteria for 'better' would be, but not for me he ain't - never mind ballpark; not even the same planet! Gimme Jerry 👍, not John Mayer 👎! 😃 Interesting that Bach was 'lost' for about 150 years, including just about all of the 19th century, I believe, before he went on his 'Last Tour'! |
Of course it is - It's every bit as 'valid' as any other musical form or genre. May as well ask if rock music is valid, and I know there are some snobs who think it's not, but I couldn't care less what people like that think about anything. I have no use for arbiters of validity. I was in the music business back when Sugarhill Gang's 'Rapper's Delight' came out in 1979, and the genre has been going full on since then - yeah!!! And Kendrick Lamar IS pretty awesome, yeah? |
@mglik - In a way, yes, but being a big reggae fan, when I first heard rap/hip-hop, I was thinking, 'This is like Jamaican toasting', which had been going on since earlier in the 70's, and it was. But it was different too, so I like both!! |
@jonwatches1 - that does sound funny; thanks for the tip!! 👍 |
@sonic79 + 1 |
I'm 70 and I like rap/hip-hop/edm, and other forms of contemporary music; I'd guess that more than a few of the original thinkers here saying 'rap is crap' (how witty!) or something similar are a good bit younger than me, so can we please lay off of the age-ist stuff? 'Boomers' or 'geezers' do not have a monopoly on this attitude, and many 'boomers' do not share that attitude at all.... @jonwatches1 - Noooooobody expects the Spanish Inquisition! 🤣 |
@crouse99 + 100 |
@northman + 1 |
@asvjerry + 1 "No way today, that trouble comin' everyday..." - FZ |
@denverfred - heya! just wondering what does being able to read music, a vocalist's ability to play an instrument, etc have to do with anything? Plenty of great 'musicians' just bore the crap out of me because they're more concerned with showing off their skills than songwriting. |
@holmz - I was just listening to The Streets a couple of nights ago - his first album, 'Original Pirate Material' is also excellent.... I got to see him perform here in San Francisco about 10 years ago or so... |
@holmz - Heya! No, I've got some speakers and headphones up for sale, but not any TT.... |
@holmz - So selling you my Harbeth speakers would be out of the question then, yes? 😆 |
@sounds_real_audio - Uh, no - 'Rapture' was not the first rap song; very, very far from it - it was paying tribute to earlier rappers like Grandmaster Flash... |
@holmz - Hah! I see so much weird stuff on these forums that I DON'T know that! 🤔 I have no doubt that there are people who think that was the first rap song....I love 'Rapture' - such a haunting melody, and I like Debbie's rap, too! |
@holmz - More than just 'she' - as the saying goes, 'Blondie is a group'! 😎 - and Chris Stein writes most of the songs. And Clem Burke is one of the greatest drummers in rock. But yeah, the lyrics in 'Rapture' pay tribute to GM Flash and Fab 5 Freddy, so no surprise there! |
@holmz - No seriously, in the earlier days, the band got so tired of everybody equating 'Blondie' with Debbie that they made up buttons saying 'Blondie Is A Group'.... @simonmoon - good that you checked it out! But does quality, enjoyable music have to be 'musically complex' or 'sophisticated'? Personally, that's not what I listen to music for. I've heard way too many 'virtuosos' who do not interest me even a little but cure insomnia for me very reliably! 😁 It's hard for me to care how well or with what sophistication they play their instruments if I don't like the music they play on them. Some music I love is like that; much of it is not. Nothing against it or any other genre; I don't require music to be to my particular taste to consider it good or valid. |
@mglik - Alas, I've been watching it all develop over the past 6 or 7 years with a sense of 'deja vu all over again'. I guess 'instructive lessons of history' can go both ways. 😕 Thanks for the tip on Kendrick's 'Damn'! |
@tylermunns + 1 |
