Do I need a subwoofer?


Hopefully I’ve framed this in a way to help people answer. Up until recently I have had a combo 2-channel/home theater system (Krell preamp with home theater bypass, Bryston 5 channel amp, PSB Synchrony 1s bi-amped speakers, Marantz home theater receiver, Power Sound Audio XV15 subwoofer, Oppo CD player). I wanted extra oomph for surround sound movie watching and occasionally some rock music, hence the sub. I was never really impressed with the XV15 sub (have it for sale now). It is insanely large and I wasn’t sure it was adding the oomph I expected, even after having a local hifi shop owner come out for a listen and tune.

What’s changed: A few weeks ago I inherited my late father’s B&W 801 speakers circa 1980, which I have put in place of my PSBs and am enjoying thoroughly despite the age difference.

My questions: (1) would a sub still be of value in my setup (I still like a lot of bass) and (2) what might folks recommend?

 

Thank you.

olfac87

These are a bunch of great posts. Glad to hear other 801 owners' experiences, and appreciate the REL suggestion. I will look into all this.

I very highly recommend a REL sub!  I currently have Zu Druids as my mains because I love them for music, but they don't create deep bass.  Plus I have a totally suboptimal, fairly large, open, irregular room.  I have experimented with a variety of subwoofers in an attempt to give some depth to music, and impact to movies without breaking the bank or taking up half my room.

A couple months ago I picked up a pristine used REL 212 SE hoping that the 2 -12 inch active, and two passive drivers could do the job in an acceptable footprint.  I had been reading great things about REL subs and figured this would be a great way to try them.

Make sure to read this all the way to the end....Because I initially connected the 212 the same way I had my other subs through the LFE on my preamp. and it sounded better, but not overwhelmingly so. I figured I had just reached that diminishing returns line for the room I have.  Though I was still hopeful things could get better once I connected the REL the way the manual recommends. 

The Speakon arrived a few days later so I had time to listen without it, and as previously mentioned, the 212 sounded good, but not enough different to justify the price jump over the SVS subs I had been using.  

Once I made the Speakon connection though I immediately heard a massive difference!  My entire system seemed transformed!  The bass was all I ever hoped it could be for music.  I played some favorite bass heavy music streaming through Tidal, and couldn't believe the difference.  Next I put on Deadpool Blueray to see what would happen with movies and I could feel my pantlegs flapping, and stuff on my shelves rattling the way I've heard other people describe!  And if that's all that happened I would have been very happy.

The totally surprising part was how much the soundstage widened and deepened.  Literally defies description.  It must be heard to be appreciated.  

But wait, there's more!  Seriously though, More!.  Having the REL connected through the Speakon connector and to my amp the way they recommend made the mids and highs sound better too.  Noticeably, obviously better.

I have been playing with a pretty wide variety of decent quality components over the past couple years and the REL 212 SE has overwhelmingly made the biggest upgrade in the sound quality of both music and movies for my system!

I cannot recommend any sub more highly than a REL!

REL is a good choice, SVS not so much for a music based system. The other good choice is Rythmik. Even their ported models are graceful enough for music systems but their sealed models are simply sublime. Especially check out the G22 (dual 12") and G25 (dual 15") models. You want subs that don't sound like subs but rather like extensions of your existing speakers and either of these brands are capable of doing that, and yes, you definitely want two. Budget for two from the get-go, don't "try" one and see where that gets you. And yes, three or even four are even better, but two should get you where you want to be. 

REL is a good choice, SVS not so much for a music based system.

Really @shooter41? What’s your experience with sealed SVS subs? My experience with my SB2000 in a fairly high-end, 2-channel setup is pretty damn impressive and I’d think adding another would be even more so, so I’d be interested in what specific experience you have to say this? Yeah, I’d probably prefer Rythmic or maybe even Rel, but they’d both cost much more for similar performance so for the $ the SVS subs get you pretty damn good performance. Maybe you could share what their shortcomings are, because failing a direct comparison to pricier subs I’m at a loss for criticizing them for bass speed, musicality, or depth. Please explain.

I knew someone would get their feelings hurt. I tried SVS SB3000's first with my Kef R900's and they certainly went low but they still sounded like subs and were not what I was looking for. Rythmik was suggested to me so I tried a pair of G22's and found exactly what I was looking for. Seamless integration. I don't fault SVS for any measureable performance metrics and for home theater use I have no doubt they'd fill the bill, they just don't sound as musical to me, or most any other person that's tried Rythmik or REL.

I do think it's strange, though, that you're using an SB2000 in a "fairly high-end" system. You need to increase your sub budget, there's much better performance available for (in Rythmik's case, at least) not much more money.