2. amps-preamps
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How important is the pre-amp?

Hello all,

Genuine request here for other's experiences.

I get how power amps can make really significant changes to the sound of a system. And of course speakers have an even bigger effect. And then there is the complicated relationship between the speaker and power amp. But I wonder about pre-amps.

In theory a well designed preamp should just act as a source switch and volume control. But does it add (or ruin) magic? Can a pre-amp color the sound? Alter pace and timing? Could you take a great sounding system and spoil it with the wrong preamp? Stereophile once gushed (while reviewing a preamp that cost as much as a car) that the preamp was the heart of the system, setting the tone of everything. Really? Some people don't even bother with a preamp, feeding their DACs straight into the power amp. Others favor passive devices, things without power. If one can get a perfectly good $2K preamp, why bother with 20K?

What your experiences been?
128x128rols
yyman23
145 posts
 
After trying numerous preamps in my system (solid state, tubes, fully balanced, newer, older...) I realized how important a preamp is and how much difference it can make your system sound.
I ended up buying a McIntosh C2300 and it's going to stay here for the long run. 
rooze's avatar
rooze
577 posts
 
I’ve never had good results running direct from CD or DAC to power amps. Others do and so obviously I haven’t made the correct equipment choices in that regard.
 The only good experience I’ve had with eliminating an active preamp is with utilizing a Manley Steelhead’s variable output. I found that to be excellent. I use an expensive tube preamp and can honestly say that there’s only a marginal improvement in areas of tone and transparency when compared to the Steelhead’s vari-out. But these small improvements are worth it to me, for the time being.
I think there’s a higher cost threshold that one must pass through with an active preamp for there to be an overall improvement in system performance. Cheaper preamps (with lower quality parts) always seem to add coloration and remove transparency in my limited experience.
 
jeffinnh76
23 posts
 
I think the death of the preamp is inevitable.

For example parasound jc2 preamplifier is considered by few to be an endgame preamp. There's really no thrills with this preamp it does three things well the bass the treble and the mids with very little coloration. Everything about this preamplifier says quality build from a good designer. However take the top off and take a peek inside and you'll be amazed at just how little you see. With today's high-end portable headphone streamers and music players the competition is getting very Savvy with building high quality HiFi Sound in small boxes. Today's dacs with preamplifier sections in them are catching up to our large box Hi-Fi home preamplifiers very quickly. 
scottscottsdale
103 posts
 
knotscott nailed it.  I cannot think of any way to say it better.  

In my limited experience, going from a decent AVR to a similarly priced stereo amp made a clear and present difference—for the better.  Just have everything in balance.  
psf4972
39 posts
 

As noted above, transformers seem key. After ten years’ pleasure from a valve phono-line stage preamp I ordered a TVC yesterday after a months trial in my system. With high efficiency loudspeakers and an SET listening to LP’s and FM radio, stripping away the many feet of wire, Audio Note caps, resistors, valves, and mains electricity of an active pre has effected greatly more clarity and presence. Omitting all that charged material, I can enjoy the effects of less noise, not least, startling delicacy of sound. Made entirely by a valve amplifier manufacturer that winds its own (copper) transformers and silver internal wiring, this unit seems very well designed (Audion. I have no connection with them). It offers very nearly the weight, huge soundstage and all the colour of sound of my valve pre. I wouldn’t go back to a powered device. It took me a month to decide. I heard it in the first half minute.


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