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3 New UBER Decks - Is this Turntable's SwanSong? 🦢

Michael Fremer has recently reviewed three new turntables designed to be the 'Last Word', 'Cost no Object' STATEMENTS!!!!........Do I recall hearing this claim before??
I love Mikey and have followed (and trusted) him for decades.
He has been the longest and foremost published 'champion' of the superiority of vinyl (uber alles) in the world.
I am thus ecstatic that he has been able to listen and compare these decks in his own room, with his own equipment virtually side-by-side
It's almost a 'given' that he will be the ONLY person on earth given that privilege....

So what Mikey HEARS.....is indisputable

Given his 'character' and desire for accuracy and honesty.....years ago, Mikey started including some 'objective' measurements in his turntable reviews.
These measurements were done utilising the Dr Feikert PlatterSpeed App which has since been discontinued.
As the App only worked with the Mac iOS of many variations ago.....Mikey has kept an old iPhone which can still operate the App.
The PlatterSpeed App had a few technical limitations.....
Foremost amongst these, was its dependence on a 7" record with an embedded 3150 Hz Frequency track to produce a test-tone which the App could process through its algorithm to produce the graphs and all the corresponding numbers.
To stamp hundreds of 7" discs with perfectly 'centred' HOLES is a nigh impossibility.
It's almost impossible to do it with a 12" disc!!!

This means that ALL the figures produced in their Chart Info are dubious and mostly UNREPEATABLE!!!!
I have Chart Infos for the same turntable/arm combination but with the 7" disc moved slightly producing different figures.
I even have Chart Infos produced with the same turntable but different arms ALL with different figures (the arms are in different positions surrounding my TURNTABLE).

So what is my point......?
The GRAPH produced with the PlatterSpeed App is accurate and USEABLE when looking at the 'Green' Lowpass-Filtered Frequency.
If the hole was PERFECTLY centred.....this 'Green' line would be perfectly STRAIGHT......but only if the turntable was maintaining its speed PERFECTLY.
The wobbles in the 'Green' line are due to the hole's eccentricity as well as any speed aberrations.
So the best performing turntables are those with the most constant and even wobbles approaching as closely as possible a STRAIGHT LINE.

Now the SAT Direct Drive Motor is actually the same as Technics developed for their latest SL-1000R except with some bespoke modifications.
It appears that SAT have corrupted what is a very good DD Motor unit....🥴

Mikey says that the OMA-K3 produced the best PlatterApp figures of any turntable he has tested 👏
Does this mean that the OMA-K3 is the most accurate turntable of these three decks.....or maybe of ALL turntables?

Mikey can't (and won't) test and review products from the past which are no longer produced because that's not his job!
But wouldn't it be great if someone WOULD review products from the past against the modern equivalent?
Classic turntables with reputations....gravitas...like the legendary EMT 927 and Micro Seiki SX-5000 and SX-8000.
And what about the NOW lauded Japanese DD Turntables from the '80s...the 'Golden Age' of Analogue?
  • Technics SP-10Mk3
  • Kenwood L-07D
  • Pioneer P3
  • Victor TT-101
  • Yamaha GT-2000
Because we know that Direct Drive is now 'Flavour of the Month' for the new Uber Decks due to their superior speed accuracy....a 'Flavour' that started with the legendary Rockport Sirius III.
But what about Belt-Drive units like my 20 year-old Raven?
So much for science and technology.......

We can do things today that were only dreamt of even 10 years ago
Except learn from history, harvest experience, expertise and craftsmanship......

Here endeth the Sermon for today 🤗


128x128halcro
chakster's avatar
chakster
6,144 posts
 
Old cartridges you and I agree on, and I admire your stamina in continuing to repeat this message over and over again on this Forum.
I’ve long ago given up on offering advice to people who essentially don’t want it.....🤭
But the message has obviously gotten out.
When I first began buying old cartridges on EBay 15 years ago.....good examples cost $200-$300.
Today those same cartridges are regularly going for $500-$1,000 so hundreds of audiophiles have gotten the message....even if most of them might be in Japan 😛


Haha, gotcha :))

And don’t forget ’old’ tonearms......
People are conditioned to think that ’modern’ is better and that ’progress and technology’ continually improve things
It’s true for many things like cars and computers but for traditional, well-understood crafts like watchmaking and analogue HiFi equipment, it ain’t necessarily so.

Finally, I decided to upload the gallery of my modern and vintage components in my virtual system page, If they will not limit me technically there must be tons of pictures showing the evolution of my system. I upload pictures everyday. I want to show people that vintage high-end stuff is cool in a combination with modern analog gear.
dover
2,179 posts
 
@halcro 
I do not "not read reviews" or "ignore interesting writings" - I am saying you should take them as guides only, not gospel.
I am not being harsh on Mikey, I'm 61 - I know my hearing is good - 18khz at my last hearing test, and reasonably flat, in other words no sign of hearing damage - but I know that my set up skills take a lot longer than 20 years ago and I need natural light to do it accurately. I dont expect to be the same at Mikey's age.
Yes, if you follow someones writings you get a grasp of their preferences, but you still dont know what they are hearing. 
I tend to check the reference systems as well to triangulate their opinions. For example, if a reviewer is using gear that I've heard and dislike, then I put less weight on their opinion as it relates to potential purchase decisions for my own system.
I enjoy Fremers writing and I know from my own knowledge of the gear he uses that I am familiar with that he is pretty reliable.
Art Dudley I enjoy reading, but cant stand Devore Orangutangs, SPU's and vintage arms that sound thick and turgid.
HP was great up until he lost interest around the time his boyfriend did a runner, the fire at Seacliff, and the advent of digital.
Robert Greene was a great reviewer.
And yes I enjoy Arthur  Salvatores writing.
Martin Colloms excellent, Ken Kesler overrated - he gets enthused about anything.
thankful
221 posts
 
I have owned very nice digital systems and currently own a very nice vinyl system. I love both formats. You can check more boxes with digital. This still comes down to personal preference.  What do you like? Regardless of all of the technical talk and measurements; what brings out emotions (goose bumps) when listening??? 

For me, I still prefer analogue. My vinyl rig sounds exceptional... 
Ag insider logo xs@2x
rauliruegas
12,815 posts
 
Dear friends : @dover  said: "   what you want is stability..." and he is totally rigth because the most important characteristic in a TT is speed stability.

Btw, that his Final TT " slaughtered " all those DD TTs is just his opinion. It's like talk with a tube lover about SS electronics, obviously that for him tubes " slaughtered " SS alternative.

He said too:  ""  My gut feel with historical top end DD's is that error correction servos, like digital, are doing the damage. ""

Obviously that's a " feeling " and here we have to remember that all the record cutting machines motors ( Technics between them ) used servo control. So if this servo correction is the problem why is not " reflected " in our LPs during play. 
I own and owned DD/BD and I can remember to identify that  "  DD's sound thin ...."
I think that's all about the whole room/system performance and not because the DD servo. servo.

Here 2 different interviews to MF:


http://highfidelity.pl/@main-250&lang=en

https://www.monoandstereo.com/2013/06/exclusive-interview-with-michael-fremer.html



R.
lewm
12,489 posts
 
Also, to the argument about servo devices and their effect on sound quality, most upper end belt drive turntables these days employ some sort of mechanism that senses platter speed and feeds back to the motor for speed correction. Why is this harmless with belt drive turntables and yet an Achilles’ heel for direct drive turntables? Of course, I do not know whether Dover’s turntable uses such a speed correction device.
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