3 New UBER Decks - Is this Turntable's SwanSong? 🦢


Michael Fremer has recently reviewed three new turntables designed to be the 'Last Word', 'Cost no Object' STATEMENTS!!!!........Do I recall hearing this claim before??
I love Mikey and have followed (and trusted) him for decades.
He has been the longest and foremost published 'champion' of the superiority of vinyl (uber alles) in the world.
I am thus ecstatic that he has been able to listen and compare these decks in his own room, with his own equipment virtually side-by-side
It's almost a 'given' that he will be the ONLY person on earth given that privilege....

So what Mikey HEARS.....is indisputable

Given his 'character' and desire for accuracy and honesty.....years ago, Mikey started including some 'objective' measurements in his turntable reviews.
These measurements were done utilising the Dr Feikert PlatterSpeed App which has since been discontinued.
As the App only worked with the Mac iOS of many variations ago.....Mikey has kept an old iPhone which can still operate the App.
The PlatterSpeed App had a few technical limitations.....
Foremost amongst these, was its dependence on a 7" record with an embedded 3150 Hz Frequency track to produce a test-tone which the App could process through its algorithm to produce the graphs and all the corresponding numbers.
To stamp hundreds of 7" discs with perfectly 'centred' HOLES is a nigh impossibility.
It's almost impossible to do it with a 12" disc!!!

This means that ALL the figures produced in their Chart Info are dubious and mostly UNREPEATABLE!!!!
I have Chart Infos for the same turntable/arm combination but with the 7" disc moved slightly producing different figures.
I even have Chart Infos produced with the same turntable but different arms ALL with different figures (the arms are in different positions surrounding my TURNTABLE).

So what is my point......?
The GRAPH produced with the PlatterSpeed App is accurate and USEABLE when looking at the 'Green' Lowpass-Filtered Frequency.
If the hole was PERFECTLY centred.....this 'Green' line would be perfectly STRAIGHT......but only if the turntable was maintaining its speed PERFECTLY.
The wobbles in the 'Green' line are due to the hole's eccentricity as well as any speed aberrations.
So the best performing turntables are those with the most constant and even wobbles approaching as closely as possible a STRAIGHT LINE.

Now the SAT Direct Drive Motor is actually the same as Technics developed for their latest SL-1000R except with some bespoke modifications.
It appears that SAT have corrupted what is a very good DD Motor unit....🥴

Mikey says that the OMA-K3 produced the best PlatterApp figures of any turntable he has tested 👏
Does this mean that the OMA-K3 is the most accurate turntable of these three decks.....or maybe of ALL turntables?

Mikey can't (and won't) test and review products from the past which are no longer produced because that's not his job!
But wouldn't it be great if someone WOULD review products from the past against the modern equivalent?
Classic turntables with reputations....gravitas...like the legendary EMT 927 and Micro Seiki SX-5000 and SX-8000.
And what about the NOW lauded Japanese DD Turntables from the '80s...the 'Golden Age' of Analogue?
  • Technics SP-10Mk3
  • Kenwood L-07D
  • Pioneer P3
  • Victor TT-101
  • Yamaha GT-2000
Because we know that Direct Drive is now 'Flavour of the Month' for the new Uber Decks due to their superior speed accuracy....a 'Flavour' that started with the legendary Rockport Sirius III.
But what about Belt-Drive units like my 20 year-old Raven?
So much for science and technology.......

We can do things today that were only dreamt of even 10 years ago
Except learn from history, harvest experience, expertise and craftsmanship......

Here endeth the Sermon for today 🤗


halcro

Showing 7 responses by chakster

But wouldn’t it be great if someone WOULD review products from the past against the modern equivalent?

They will never do that in high-end press, it will destroy the strategy of constant price increasing for new stuff. They want to live today without anything from the past (except maybe for old records), “new is always better” in their world. They can’t tell that an old high-end DDs are better (and 100 times cheaper) than some new high-end DDs. Same about cartridges. 
Old cartridges you and I agree on, and I admire your stamina in continuing to repeat this message over and over again on this Forum.
I’ve long ago given up on offering advice to people who essentially don’t want it.....🤭
But the message has obviously gotten out.
When I first began buying old cartridges on EBay 15 years ago.....good examples cost $200-$300.
Today those same cartridges are regularly going for $500-$1,000 so hundreds of audiophiles have gotten the message....even if most of them might be in Japan 😛


Haha, gotcha :))

And don’t forget ’old’ tonearms......
People are conditioned to think that ’modern’ is better and that ’progress and technology’ continually improve things
It’s true for many things like cars and computers but for traditional, well-understood crafts like watchmaking and analogue HiFi equipment, it ain’t necessarily so.

Finally, I decided to upload the gallery of my modern and vintage components in my virtual system page, If they will not limit me technically there must be tons of pictures showing the evolution of my system. I upload pictures everyday. I want to show people that vintage high-end stuff is cool in a combination with modern analog gear.
OMA states on their Website:-
The design of K3's mechanicals is the work of a team led by Richard Krebs in New Zealand, the world's foremost authority on direct drive turntable technology.
Perhaps a Footnote is needed:-
Assuming all the Engineers at Technics, Victor, Pioneer, Yamaha, Kenwood et al are now deceased?


This is a good point. Personally I never heard about any Krebs product, except for his modification of Technics SP-10mkII motor on this forum. Is there anything else Richard Krebs actually made? 


It’s ridiculous!

If the tonearm does not move side to side while playing the record then your record is perfectly centered (perfectly enough, so no one can detect any imperfections in pitch, even trained musicians). The rest is speculations of the most boring people - audiophiles.

Vinyl is a cheap media format to manufacture, off-centered records must be in the recycle bin immediately. Defective records must be returned to the seller/shop whatever, no one will argue about it.

Unfortunately there are off centered records in the market, playing those records everyone can actually see how a tonearm is moving side to side (sometimes it’s 5mm off, and that’s awful, in this case the pitch is noticeably and constantly changing, especially if you are listening to the horn section, for example).

If your tonearm does not move side to side then you don’t have to worry !

If you’re still worried then stick to digital.
It’s hard pill to swallow, one that I did long ago but which many audiophiles may never. You may love your turntable sound but recognize you love the flaws. It’s okay.


In reality you don't have to buy even a $10k turntable to enjoy analog records, do not try to justify a $300k turntable made for a small niche of people, it has nothing to do with a real world of music lovers, record collectors, audio enthusiasts.

Most of the greatest records were made a long time before digital was invented. You can enjoy all of them in digital format (we do, actually), but it will never be an original format, those records made in analog over 45 years ago. If you're ok to replace original (analog) with digital copy from the analog then you can do the same with art for example? Just make a digital copy to pretend you own something unique, but It's only an illusion.  
There is a different philosophy behind record collection, you can't replace it with digital illusion (except for music made in digital format from the start).

You post is like saying: "I'm smart, I listen to a perfect digital. You are fools, but it's ok if you're listening to a faulty media formats - old analog records". 

Who cares? 

In fact, each time I read a statement like this I'm sure a poster does not understand why vinyl is a long life media format. Definitely not because of the small group of people who can buy $300k turntables, not even because of the audiophiles in general.  

 



Nothing made pre 1970 was a technical state of the art recording. Good music but the equipment added so much to the music that was not there.


State of the art recordings made even in the late '50s, and every studio engineer will tell you the same. 

The source for audiophile re-issues made by Analog Production today are old master tapes from the '50s for example. And those tapes are excellent. What they can do with their pimped up pressing plant today on UHQR, flat profile etc., is amazing, but for premium prices! 
You know nothing about it, stick to your digital and stop to brainwash our minds. Nobody forces you to buy vinyl (or turntables). Â