Holographic Soundstage ?


I would like to share my observation and hopefully get some input from people who have the same interest.

My system consist of Wharfedale Opus 3 , Krell KRC-3 preamp, Krell KSA 150 amp, Chord Qutest DAC and a computer with JCAT USB EX running Roon/with LPSU from HDPlex.
I mainly like holographic soundstage and would be able to achieve a very good 3D soundstaging with my current Krell setup.
I decided to try out tube amp a couple days ago because I read through the internet and everybody told me that tube amp always have better holographic soundstage and 3D imaging comparing to SS amp.
So I order a Raven Blackhawk MK3 from Raven audio with 45 days home trial just to try it out. I was expecting a very holographic soundstage that will blow my Krell out of the water.
Well, I was so WRONG. The Krell combo actually has a deeper and wider soundstage comparing to the Raven.
The Raven also has some very weak bass comparing to the Krell which is more punchy and tonally rich textured bass.
I cannot understand why it happens. I am always under the impression that tube amp will always provide more holographic soundstage. Obviously, In my set up the Krell is superior when it come to 3 dimensionality.

I will keeping trying out the Raven Blackhawk in the next couple of weeks and if things are not improved. I am ready to return the Raven and perhaps trying out the other tube amps (or solid state amps) that can beat the Krell combo.

If any one has some idea of such a product, please let me know. I am looking for an upgrade right now.

128x128viethluu
Rifraf4u
What i hear is no imagination and simple to figure out. Wifi can only transfer so much data and as it travels through walls ceilings floors and electrical fields that data is compromised. Hard wire does not have thst issue so when the data reaches the dac there is more clean data (sound) coming through.
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@mikekollar - "Go on to ebay and spend the $150 to $200 on a vintage 1980's Carver C9 Sonic hologram generator and introduce THAT into your system. My 20k 2 channel system loves it and I consider this the most important piece on my rack."

Yep, companies have been adding an out-of-phase signal (crosstalk cancellation) for decades.  Lexicon did it in their processors, Polk did it with their SDA speakers and right now there is a VERY well liked speaker line that uses tweeter arrays in the same way - feeding some of the tweeters out-of-phase signals to achieve some great sound. So I'm not shocked your Carver C9 is your most loved piece of gear in your $20k system. Bravo for even bringing it up since you know what happens on these boards......
Why not trying to recreate this "headphone effect" about imaging and listener envelopment (LEV) instead of using electronical cross talk control with a mechanichal acoustic control?

It is possible if i have it....

For sure 32 helmholtz pipes and tubes in a living room and some devices near the tweeter of one speaker and the bass driver of the other one are not esthetical either....

But all my 7 headphones are in the drawers definitively.... 😊

I can control "timbre perception experience" with my grid of Helmholtz devices, not only soundstage or LEV, could i with an electronical Carver c9 ? The experience of a more natural timbre perception is more important for me than anything but a system without holographic imaging filling the room is without appeal at all...Speakers must vanish in a good system....

In fact an out pof phase signals added will not make us able to control or correct the timbre experience in a specific room.... Then..... It is only an artificial device for the imaging and soundstage perception... It is not enough if your room/ speakers are not totally already adapted  and able to give you a natural "timbre" experience already...My grid give me that.... Passive material treatment of my room was not enough...there is a relation between the acoustic factors linked to timbre and imaging and soundstage.... It is difficult to reach the right timing of the wavefronts to the ears....But with my grid the "tiniest" tuning is possible...

This is a low price device the carver c9 indeed, and i am curious to try one if i could look for one some day, but after what i experience now, it seems i dont need it at all...
@sgreg1 that is not how it works.

Also It’s not unusual for tube amps with higher output impedance ( than SS in general and Krell) to have relatively less articulate bass and inferior dynamics as it interacts with the speaker load at various frequencies. Distortion is likely much higher in that case than with a comparable SS amp of lower output impedance overall. This is why impedance matching matters.