Oh my god!!!! I´ve been writing a message for an hour and I lost
all the text before posting it. Let´s try it another time (hahaha).
Thanks so much gregm for your message. Really useful. It´s curious
that you talk about other options such as Magico, Gamut or Vivid Audio. Until
recently, I was seriously considering models like the Magico A5, Stenheim
Alumine (3 or 5), Legacy Audio Aeris or Rockport Aviar II. But then, one day, I
read the interview to Gregg Timbers on Positive Feedback. It was really
revealing (see: https://positive-feedback.com/interviews/greg-timbers-jbl/):
Who do you admire as a speaker designer today?
I honestly don't pay much attention to loudspeaker designers any
more. Every now and then I see something that looks cool or refreshing to me,
but mostly everything is a rehash of what has gone before and is so covered
with marketing hype that I just don't care. I am a dynamics guy and very
few loudspeakers take that into consideration, in my opinion.
How has the sound of speakers changed over the years? Many yearn
for the speakers of the past over those of today… what has changed? Distortion,
materials, focus on sound characteristics?
Speakers have generally become smoother, more 3-dimensional and
much smaller. This means that they are less dynamic on the whole and rather toy
like compared to good stuff from the 60s and 70s. Unlike electronics,
miniaturization is not a good thing with loudspeakers. There is no substitute
for size and horsepower. Nothing much has changed with the laws of physics in
the last 100 years so what it takes to make dynamic life-like sound is
unchanged. There have been some advances in magnet materials and a bunch of
progress in adhesives but not much else. The cost of a 70s system in today's
economy would be considered unaffordable and the system would be deemed
unnecessarily huge. The large highly efficient systems of old came at a time
when 15 – 30 watts of power was the norm. Today's stuff would choke on those
amplifiers. Now that power is cheap, size and efficiency has been thrown out
the window because you can always apply more power. Unfortunately, more power
does not make up for lack of efficiency. Today's speakers range between 0.1% to
maybe 0.5% in efficiency. (On a good day) 60s and 70s stuff was more like 1% to
10%. With most of the losses gong to heat, turning up the power on a small
system with small voice coils and poor heat management is definitely not
equivalent to a large high efficient speaker.
It is true that the response of many of the old systems was a bit
ragged and generally less attention was put in the crossover networks because
simplicity generally means higher through-put. However, the big Altec's, JBL's,
Klipsch's and Tannoys of the day would still fair well today with a little modernization
of the enclosures and crossovers.
Today's multi-channel home theater setups let a bunch of small toy
loudspeakers and a sub or two sound pretty big and impressive to the average
Joe. I think speakers have mostly become a commodity and small size and price
are what counts the most now. The few high-end brands left are struggling for
market share in this age of ear buds.
In
summary, “size matters” and physics is physics”. So after that, I focus my
interest on speakers with big woofers (15 and 18 inches) and brands like JBL Synthesis
(model K2 S9900), vintage models (from JBL or Altec), Tannoy, PMC and, of
course, ATC. Legendary brands with models that in some cases seem to be more for
the profesional market, where the design
is not important and the only concern is
THE SOUND. Just the opposite to the “minimalistic” designs that are norm or tendecy nowadays on the high-end market.
I
know that the next question is going to be controversial, but I must do it: Do
you think that “size matters” and new designs are not worthy in terms of sound quality
and capabilities??
As
you can see after reading my posts, I´m not closed to any option (hahaha). What
I´m looking for?? A dynamic sound with a great holographic scene; the sensation
of being part of the music and not only
the sensation of hearing music. Feel that the speakers disappear and you are in
the live concert. I´m open to any suggestion…
Yes,
maybe they are speakers on the high-end very capables but according to the price
of the ATC SCM150, how much you must pay on the high-end to have a “similar”
experience?? I think that a lot more.
Talking
about the Kenrick Sound JBL custom models. Yes, gregm, I´m agree with you that in
comparison with ATC, they are a totally different design. You mention they have
wide dispersion characteristics. It is said that wide dispersion speakers sound
more natural and direct and that the sound is easy to listen too and relaxing
as opposed to the feeling you get with narrow dispersion spekers. What´s your opinion
about this and which design (wide vs narrow) is your personal choice??
Let´s
go now with Klipsch… To me Klipsch is the more controversial brand. People
seems to love it or hate it. It´s a real curious brand. Some audiophiles with
many speakers behind them, said that is an “end game” speaker. They talked
about an oustanding capability to create an holographic scene in a way no other
speaker on the market (including six-figure price speakers) can do. An
inmersive sensation of being in the the live concert. In opposition, other
people think that the sound it´s not pure (no neutral Fidelity) and also the
sound is “nasal” (horn technolgy). Maybe having low profile speakers doesn´t
help the general consideration of their Heritage line. Also “economical” prices
on the top models, in comparison with the high-end market, doesn´t help… I
don´t know. I´m really confused with this brand. I´m agree with ozzy62 that
Klipschorns and Jubilees “are two different animals”, but I have dared to make
this comparison because: the new Jubilees are a mystery until the end of the
year and the only actual model (old Jubilees are not a reference) “comparable”
is the Klipschorn. What we can expect about the new Jubilees?? What´s the
general opinion about Klipsch?? Is on the same league as ATC, JBL or others in
your opinion?? They are “end game” speakers in your opinion??
At
last, thanks mglik for your comment. Very, very interesting everything you said
about your personal (and profesional) experience with ATC. Really useful.
Any
comments, suggestions or recommendations
of these brands and models or others would be appreciated. Thanks so much and sorry for my horrible english. I hope everyone understand me more or less.
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