Eh hem!...Subwoofers... What do ya know?

After doing lots of reading, research, and listening, I went with a pair of the new Vandersteen Model 3 Subs. I liked the way they integrated with the main speakers. I will take delivery in a couple of weeks--they are in shipping. I will let you know how they work.

uberwaltz:
I use just one ML Dynamo 700w sub right now to compliment my Maggie's.
Strongly considering adding another though.
Room can really only handle two as far as placement goes.
Would a pair work diagonally opposite each other?
So say one front left, the other rear right or?

Say, does that Dynamo hum? Frank Zappa's did.

Placement is all about figuring out where to put one speaker to get the smoothest response at the sweet spot. With more subs it matters less and less where they go. You actually want them different places, particularly asymmetrically different places, because the more different sources the more different modes and they all average out to much, much smoother bass.

With my 5, one is front wall left, two on each side wall, and they are each a little bit different distance from the corners. Tim on the other hand (noble_100) took a more systematic approach and wound up with one in each corner. His room is almost exactly same as mine, like within about a foot each way. His listening is closer to the back wall, but as I recall its dual use, he sits more to the wall for movies, further out for music. Loves it either way.

Stories like his, plus my experience, and Duke's, all agrees with the early papers (Geddes, et al) conclusion of random or at least asymmetrically located is best. 

With 2 I'd put the second one diagonally opposite and spaced a little closer or further from the corner than the first one. With just two you might hear a difference moving them around. The more there are, the less it matters where they are.

I just went through all this since the golden ear accolades for the swarm set up .I have  spent every waking moment working on it for a couple weeks until it is so perfect its real. Running 2 18” ,2 15” and 2 10” placed with help from tim. The idea of spending thousands on one killer sub seems idiotic to me now . Any one of them is barely percievable that they are even on when you walk up to them . But the entire room is alive. (2000sqft) no boomy voices or having to reach for the remote because things seem suddenly ridiculous. The hardest part was just properly running the wires. All mono . Using a bx63a crossover. The main subs are under the floor suspended from the ceiling . Aiming each other 20” apart. The rest are placed in the standing waves of the room. I feel like the subs are part of the room now and i can audition any main speakers i want .  Room treatment seems less and less necessary the more dialed it gets.  

I have had a powered sub woofer in my audio system for 25 years and wouldn't have it any other way. Started out back in the day with Paradigm 20 monitors with Servo 15 sub woofer because of room constraints. Moved to new house and upgraded to Dunlavy SC lll's with the Servo 15 doing double duty 5.1 and two channel. When dialed in correctly it sounded amazing. No one, but no one back then that I new had two subs. Now in my retirement home with audio room contraints again I now have two separate systems in my small man cave, a dedicated two channel setup with a tube pre amp and tube amp and a 5.1 AV pre amp with a 5 channel power amp. For both systems I have the SVS ultra 13 Subwoofer. I don't have room for two unfortunately. But maybe I have something close to a sub swarm setup as my main speakers have built in powered sub woofers that will go down to 20hz. So along with my SVS Ultra 13 sub woofer the full audio range is pretty prodigious and well integrated with the help of Dirac EQ. I'm just amazed how well my system produces full range music, and for movies also, for that matter!

gochurchgo-

I guess I’d have to see what “placed ideally” equates to. Some light reading have the impression that one on each wall was the answer. How true that is I do not know.

if 2 $500 subs are better overall than 2 $200 subs then so be it. I’m just genuinely curious  as the “4 is better than 1” motto never mentions “good ones“ versus “ones that should work ok”.

Highly recommend searching and reading just about everything posted by Audiokinesis. Awesomely succinct, won't take long, just don't read fast there's a lot to absorb.

The quality/quantity thing is admittedly a hard one and doesn't sort out nice and clean. There's overlap, where one kilowatt 18" REL might be better than four 8 inch Hsu tubes. But not if total cost is the same for both.

Better quality is always gonna sound better. When I told Duke which 10" Morel drivers I bought he had no problem saying mine will kill his. By and large though my sense of it is for the vast majority of choices out there four of just about any of them will beat any one you can buy for the same amount of money.

Put another way the typical Swarm type DBA runs around $2-4k and I just don't think there's any one or even two subs anywhere near that much that can come even close. Just look at the comments. Pretty much everyone who's done this says its the best bass they ever heard. Not the best for $3k. The best, period.

Duke even had a customer choose his Swarm, and he had I think a $20k budget. Not for the system, just for the sub. Coulda bought a $20k sub. Listened to subs in that price range. Thought the Swarm was better.

That's why this is such an uphill battle. As if the physics, psycho-acoustics, mono, and "integrating" aren't hard enough, you got to try and convince people the concept is so powerful it overrides the need for great big expensive drivers. Oh, and lamp cord will do just fine. Its just too much to swallow. Even though its all true.