Does my setup need a phono stage?

I agree that an outboard phono stage can result in improvement. I also agree that you'd get the most bang for your buck shopping for a used or demo unit, given your budget.

Some models I would recommend researching are the Bryston BP-2 MM, Gold Note PH-1, Simaudio 310LP (there is also the 110LP v2), Pro-Ject Phono Box RS, and Rega Fono MM.

You will probably find it impossible to buy a stand alone phono stage that doesn't sound a lot better than what you have now. That said, you mentioned budget, and you already know the value of tweaks, so you ought to know where this is going. You're not talking about buying a phono stage. You're talking about buying a phono stage, power cord, interconnect, and fuse. At the very least. Cones. Shelf. Whatever you put the phono stage on, or put on the phono stage- or both.

Also with regard to phono stages, there is probably nothing else other than maybe speakers where there is such a huge range of not only performance but sound. What I mean is that unlike say a CDP or DAC, or two amps, all of which sound so much alike that a lot of people can't even hear any differences at all, with a phono stage they are all very different, a lot of them dramatically so. 

What this means is its really important to audition. I had to drag about a dozen of the darn things home before the Audio Research PH3SE that I could actually live with. It wasn't dark like the EAR, nor hyped and etched like the Linn. It was a lot of work but worth it because it wound up making me very happy for the next 20 years. After which time as testament to its value it was sold for $1k, from $2500 new, pretty darn good after 20 years.

The other interesting thing about phono stages, unlike other components where you can spend to infinity and always find better with phono stages you can spend to $3k and find the Herron and be done. So keep that in mind.

My first suggestion would be you spend a few hours poring over reviews. Six Moons, Stereophile, like that. Not here. "The $649 Symphonic Bombast is great!" means nothing. You need to read, and read carefully. Pay attention to what cartridge is used and what that reviewer says about that cartridge. All analog positively slays digital but some its not even funny how good it is and there is even some that can be flat out magic, and I'm not talking for a fortune either. The challenge is figuring out what and how to put it together.

Then the next suggestion is you be willing to stretch a little. With CD this isn't worth it at all, they're crap from the get-go and all come with built-in obsolescence. With analog, well my phono stage was 20 years, my turntable is now 15, etc. But then I followed my own advice and put in the hours finding the right stuff. 

So you stretch and then even with crap power cord and interconnect it will still be magic compared to what you have. Then later when you can you "upgrade" it with a much better interconnect. Power cord. By stretching with the stage you got something that really good wire will reveal even more its strengths, instead of the weaknesses you would hear with a lesser stage. Or worse, you would be tempted to follow the self-defeating advice everyone else gives and "system match" which really boils down to using wire as band-aids and make-up to correct faults in one area by adding faults in another.

Yeah. I know. But people actually do this.

Good work with the tweaks. The BQ Fuse is awesome. Keep it up.

Clearaudio Nano would definitely upgrade your sound for $450!

@big_greg

I have been looking for a phenomena 2+ as well, but they are pretty pricy. can you explain home theatre bypass ? Why is it different than pure direct? I have been wondering about my preamp. I love the home theater, but I mainly listen to 2 channels. The way I have it set up now is kind of unique. I have a six channel amp just for my home theater which is a Mcintosh Mc7106 and I have a two channel Mcintosh ma5200 integrated amp (for my two channel set up. When I press the pure direct button on my Marantz, it’s only sending 2 channels to my Ma5200 preamp in. Marantz states “This mode is for playback with higher sound quality than in Direct playback mode.

This mode turns off the main unit display and analog video circuit. Doing so suppresses noise sources that affect sound quality.”

When I’m eating a movie , I put it in Dolby atmos and it sends out the remaining six channels to my Mc7106 amp. I’ve been happy with the Marantz, but i definitely want to know if I’m missing out on something. It was my understanding that it’s basically the same as using a Mcintosh mx160 but thousands less and without the sexy McLogo.

Thoughts?

@big_greg

Andrew,

A good preamp or linestage is going to have a less negative impact on sound quality than a home theater receiver or processor. There are a lot of electronics packed into your Marantz and it can’t help but degrade some of the signal being fed to it, even in Direct mode.

The way a home theater bypass works is that instead of connecting your amp to your Marantz, you connect it to the preamp. For a preamp that has a home theater bypass feature, you run an interconnect from the bypass outputs on the preamp to the left and right inputs on your processor where you currently have the amp connecting to the processor.

You connect your turntable and any other sources you have (CD player, streamer, etc.) to the preamp. When you’re listening to music, the preamp controls the volume and selects the source. When you want to watch a movie, you engage home theater bypass on the preamp and the signal bypasses the preamp and volume is controlled by the Marantz.

In my case I use a Modwright LS-100. It sounds much better than the Marantz. It has a built in phono stage (which is an add on option), but I use an external phono stage that is even better, a Manley Chinook. You might consider saving up and looking for a preamp with a decent phono stage and home theater bypass and you could kill two birds with one stone.

Having said all that, it looks like the Mac has a phono stage, although after a quick look at the six moons review, it doesn't get high marks.  There's more than one way to skin a cat.  Perhaps a separate two channel amp or two monoblocks and a decent preamp with HTBP would take you further in your quest for better sound quality.  I'm not that familiar with the Mac and am not sure if there's a way you could leverage it better than you currently are.  Maybe someone who owns one could comment on your current setup.

Some integrateds also have HTBP (my Peachtree Nova 300 for example) so if you like the idea of an integrated you could move to one with HTBP and use it much the same as I described above - use the integrated's amp and preamp for 2 channel listening and also drive your main speakers with it for home theater.