Strange turntable/speaker issue


OK, this is going to be lengthy, but here goes....

I have a feeling someone else has experienced this, and want to get some advice in how to correct this issue.

Some background; I could not keep myself from wondering just how good the old vinyl I had boxed up for years would sound compared to my digital set-up, which sounds pretty good to me right now. But, out of curiosity, I finally dragged up my old turntable that has been stored in my basement for 15 years (since I moved in), and probably have not used it in at least 25-30 years total. Originally purchased in the mid 70’s, it is a basic Kenwood KD-2055 with the heavy composite ‘granite’ base. After getting it set-up, I realized very quickly the old Ortofon OM 5E cartridge I installed in the mid-80’s was not going to ‘cut it’, and could not compete with my CD’s, files, or streaming set-up. So, after doing a bit of research, and not knowing yet if going back to some vinyl listening would stick, I purchased a Grado Premier Red, mounted it in the shell, set it up, and yes, it is a vast improvement. Much better overall dynamic range, soundstage, imaging, etc. than the Ortofon 5E. I thought to myself, ‘this may just work’. But, as I was checking some things out, I realized my Vandersteen 2CE’s were actually moving quite a bit (volume was a bit high, but not overly so). That is no easy task. I got back behind the Vandy’s and the rear 10” acoustic coupler was actually moving in and out at a fairly rapid speed, thus causing the speakers to actually move on the anchor stands quite noticeably. Now, this was not really effecting the sound, or creating sound in and of itself, but it can’t be good. First thing I thought was I had misconnected the cartridge leads at the shell, so double checked, and they are connected as per the Grado instructions. BTW, this could have been happening with the old Ortofon as well, but I may not have noticed. Overall, while playing music, the turntable also seems highly sensitive to moving/walking around as the music was playing without distortion. I don’t have to tell you, this does not happen with CD’s or digital files.

I have my turntable on top of a pretty beefy steel frame with wood shelves 60” long ‘TV stand’, as yes, my system also acts as a ‘home theater’ setup, as well as a 2 channel set-up for music. The Vandy 2CE’s are my ‘front’ and 2 channel speakers driven separately by a B&K 125.2 power amp. The lowest shelf of this unit consists of CD storage, the middle shelf my B&K amp, Yamaha V871 receiver (I use as my pre in 2 channel, although it does little as the front channel pre-out’s go directly to the B&K, and while playing music I run in ‘pure direct’), CD player, and PS Audio DAC which all my CD’s, files, and streaming runs through. The top shelf is my TV, Elac center speaker, and my turntable. At this time I am using the Yamaha phono stage (that could change soon, as I think a dedicated phono pre-amp would help things a lot). The TV/equipment stand sits directly to the side of the right speaker, not between the Vandy’s, as they are on each side of my fireplace. The turntable is about 4 1/2’ from the right speaker, and right about the same level of the Vandy’s front 8” woofer.

So, all that said, I have a feeling what I am getting is sonic feedback between the speaker and turntable, perhaps with the cartridge acting as a microphone getting hit with the sound waves from the right speaker, even with the dust cover down. Because of room and layout constraints, I have very limited locations for all this stuff, so not sure a relocation of the turntable is really possible, and if I did, would have to get long male/female RCA interconnect extensions to get back to my Yamaha, or any future phono pre-amp, which would still have to run back to the Yamaha probably utilizing the analog Audio 2 inputs, as the Audio 1 inputs are serving the PS Audio DAC.

So, is sonic feedback what I am witnessing? Or could it be something else? And is there any easy solution? I doubt isolation feet will solve anything if feedback between the right speaker and turntable is the problem.


128x128bkeske
I own the Mani and it is very, very good, but it doesn't have a low filter.  Thinking about this, there are a few other areas you should research.  Perhaps your tonearm/phono cartridge match is not good - low mass tonearm and high mass cartridge or vice versa.  This will cause the cartridge to over-react to warps or imperfections in the record.  The KD-2055 has a nice base (it was spoken well of in Absolute Sound, I believe, back in the day).  It may be the shelf itself that is reacting to the low frequencies and causing the turntable to vibrate. Perhaps some heavier weights on the shelf will cause its resonant frequency to shift down and minimize its effect on the turntable.
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I have or actually had the exact same issue with my turntable.

Within the past couple of days I installed a Kiseki cartridge in my 1979 era Sony turntable with a SME 3009 arm replacing an old audio technica cartridge from 1984, and experienced excessive inaudible pumping of the woofers. I just happened to have an old dual 31 band graphic eq from my old FOH days which yesterday I inserted between the pre amp and the power amp, engaged the low cut filter on each channel and no more woofer pumping.

For me personally the eq did not degrade the sound but actually helped improve the sound  due to the fact I was also able to eliminate or at least greatly reduce frequency inadequacies created by the room, leaving me with cleaner, clearer sound.

I was also experiencing low end feed back at higher volumes and that is definitely NOT inaudible. I remedied that by changing the location of my subwoofer.
Okay bkeske now where were we? Oh yeah, vibration control. Something few understand well. Be careful with some of the advice above.

Trying to advise sight-unseen is low-probability at best. Like the woofer flutter situation. If I was there to see and hear I could tell you in an instant whether you need to do anything or not. Since you haven't mentioned hearing anything then my guess is you don't need to do anything. But again, no way to be sure without being there.

That to reiterate again is another reason its so important to run the table on the floor a while. It really is the only way to be sure you're hearing the table and not whatever the table is sitting on. Its the only way to know what it should sound like when set up on a proper stand.

Vibration control is a lot like the woofer situation. There in person I'd know what would work. Instantly. Lotta experience. Sadly, not there. You'll just have to figure it out for yourself.

Here's what you need to know to have a shot at it. Effective vibration control calls for a combination of and a balance between mass, stiffness, and damping. The very best vibration control you can get for a turntable is really massive, super stiff, and highly damped. You hit it, it doesn't move, and the sound is like hitting lead. So there's a simple test for anything you're thinking of using: the tink test. You hit it and if it tinks, don't use it. If its so soft it makes no sound at all (like sorbothane) you don't want it. The more it makes a short sharp neutral tunk that dies right off the better.

That's one school, best thought of as reduce and eliminate. The other approach is to go light and control or tune rather than eliminate. The best example of this is Linn. But a lot of cheaper tables are forced into this approach, for the simple reason its the only approach possible at those price levels. Lots of examples of this in tables under a couple grand. None at the very highest levels, that I can think of anyway.

So, how's the floor trial coming?


Get yourself a KAB Rumble Filter for $179.00 and be done with the problem.