Enough SET Power for Rock and Roll

ps- let me add, if you can see both your speakers in a picture of video view, they are too close together. the speakers have to be at least 20-25 feet apart to get the soundstage to emerge- the farther apart they are, the BIGGER THE SOUNDSTAGE. this is a simple but well kept secret amongst experienced veteran tube-stereo audiophiles. having speakers 10’ apart creates a tiny soundstage in miniature. mine are 28’ apart and the soundstage is HUGE, like a real concert, with depth that sounds like it’s 30 feet away in the front yard, and forward towards me only a foot away, while the speakers are in fact 14’ in front of me, to each side. yet the 28’ space between the speakers, creates a realistic soundstage with individual singers, instruments, etc. with drums to the background, just like sitting in the front row of watching a real band on stage. or, what you get is the effect of exactly where the mics were placed at the live recording, for instance the live Zeppelin double LP, it sounds like the stage is maybe 30’-50’ away, because that’s about where they had the mics to record it.

Rock music is loud and that's the way most fans want to hear it.  If you are an audiophile you want it loud with all the other good stuff audiophiles listen for.   

The opinions appear to be mixed whether a SET amp can truly do rock well.   I think most SET owners are willing to compromise in this area which is fine.  Some may have big large high quality speakers capable of the task, but those are not for everyone.  

Also I have yet to hear a SET do rock music loud and real at shows.   Most vendors naturally shy away from that kind of demo.

Its also true that in a small room in particular with agood setup one might get away with a lot more in this regard.

But it just does not seem like a natural fit for a lover of loud rock music to attack it with a SET amp.  It may still sound quite nice, just not the best for that kind of music.   

Then again we have to accept compomises somewhere usually when it comes to sound quality so one can pick whatever compromises works best for them.

For someone who liten to a variety of music including rock, the advantages may outweigh the disadvantages.    That's what it pretty much always comes down to when making a choice.

In my listening space with about 300b XLS 10watts and Audio Note E Speakers I love the pacing and emotional connection my system provides when listening to rock music. There is much about the way rock music is recorded in the studio with sound and instrumental layering that plays right into a SETs strengths. And the pacing of a great rhythm section is also why SETs are great for rock music. I kinda doubt 45 SET would give me the weight with my speakers when listening to rock. Maybe a direct coupled 2a3 SET would...who knows.

Now if you need gut punching bass at live concert levels you may need huge sub woofers and horns if that is your priority. You mention rock and roll, i am referring to rock music past and present. I don't listen to rock and roll from the 50's, not that it's not great music, it simply not a priority for me. I totally dig Elvis and his first band from the 50s. Have not heard it on my system, I probably should.

jetex,

Audio Note always has one of teh best sounding rooms at shows I’ve been to.

They seldom have rock music playing, but the larger bass driver and box used and corner placement combined with efficiency and overall quality is a very good example of a system built to be able to do most all things very well.

I’ve stolen the corner placement idea from them and use it with other box speakers I have of similar concept and the bass reinforcement corner placement provides alone might help push a system not otherwise built for rock music over the hump. Along with all the rest.

The only penalty paid I think is depth of soundstage in some cases but most people can probably live with that tradeoff.  Most traditional box designs are not champs at soundstage depth in particular to start with.

you'll find yourself turning it down to 50-60 decibels and about 2-3 watts per channel,

There is a reason that it appears that you don't need the power if you have SETs. It has to do with how they distort and how the human ear/brain system uses higher ordered harmonics in order to gauge how loud sounds are.

SETs don't have measurable distortion at low power levels (the source of their 'inner detail'); as power is increased the 2nd, 3rd and 4th come into play (the source of their 'warmth' and 'bloom') and after about 20% of full power is reached the higher ordered harmonics come into play (at full power most SETs make about 10% THD; if anyone claims less its either because they spec the power at a lower level or because they are running feedback. Because our ears use the higher ordered harmonics as loudness cues, the amp might appear to be more 'dynamic' (since the loudness cues or excess distortion is on the transients where the power is) or it might sound 'loud' simply because of this distortion.

If you take away that distortion it won't sound loud anymore and you will naturally turn up the volume, perhaps by as much as 15 db or more depending on the amps and speakers! Note also that by me telling you this, you will now be aware that distortion is why the amp sounds loud and dynamic so the experience might not be as pleasant as it was before. The cerebral cortex is funny that way. So I might have ruined it for you.

FWIW, about 90% of the time audiophiles are talking about 'dynamics' (and usually the plural not the singular) they are really talking about distortion, and as a result the word 'distortion' can safely be substituted into the sentence without changing its meaning.

Since it really is about high end audio sounding real, the solution is of course either more power or more efficiency or both. The thing is, the real challenge is bass (the holy grail of both SETs and high efficiency loudspeakers), which lacks more as the amplifier power is increased. The bigger the amp, the less bandwidth. That's why the 300b was king 20 years ago, but by 15 years ago the 2A3 supplanted it (sounds better due to greater bandwidth in the output transformer) and finally that got supplanted by the 45. IOW there is an economy of scale! The result is unconvincing bass (I played string bass in several orchestras for many years- I'm hard to please in that regard) and no way around it. The smaller amps play bass better but the speaker efficiency you need to really show off what the amp does means you can't have any bass. This is excluding the use of a subwoofer of course.