LONDON Decca, Tzar DST and similar cartridges


I have always been curious about these phono cartridges and the Stereophile review of the Tzar DST has heightened my interest. When I read about the peculiarities of these cartridges, I am put off from trying them. Can anyone offer persuasive reasons to try them and also provide real practical advice on how to make them work reliably?  Tonearm suggestions? Phono preamp suggestions? Damping recommendations? How badly do they grind out record grooves?  Any other words of advice? Thanks. 
128x128kmccarty
I have been a Decca aficionado since the late 70s. I still have my  Garrott Brothers Gold, an old Maroon and a FFSSMkIV C4E rebuilt by John Wright. The vintage C4E is just stunning, significantly better than my Garrott Brothers cartridge (retipped by John Wright). I wouldn't sell my C4E - it would be one of the things you would have to rip from my dying hands.

However, no matter how good the Decca is, it doesn't beat a 15 IPS master tape - no way. I have three 15 IPS 2 track R2R decks and some master tapes (some distribution masters and some safety copies). The 15 IPS tape just stomps all over the Decca (installed in a rewired vintage Hadcock 228 on a Platine Verdier with GT Audio Battery PSU) - no contest!
interesting post Bdp24

Bdp24......So which London to get? As always, it’s a question of system balance, the most effective allocation of your Hi-Fi Dollars/Pounds (in honour of the Britishness of Decca/London ;-), and, most importantly, of course, the other parts of your record player. There is no point in spending the extra money for the Reference if your pick-up arm won’t allow it’s superiority to the Jubilee to be heard.

You got me really curious and I started googling

First I Googled Decapod - got me this.

https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/4/44/Haeckel_Decapoda.jpg

2nd google on Decca Jubilee Cartridge - got me this

http://www.needledoctor.com/London-Decca-Jubilee-Phono-Cartridge

3rd google on Decca Reference Cartridge - got me this

http://www.needledoctor.com/London-Decca-Reference-Phono-Cartridge

4th google on Decca Tonearm - got me to this.

http://www.needledoctor.com/London-Decca-Reference-Tonearm

The path seems pretty clear to me.
you’re a bad influence Eric, you know ?
You’re taking my mind off my Quad subwoofer project and making me think about spending serious coin on a cartridge.
Cheers Chris
Thanks bdp24 - that's exactly what I was looking for. Great history of these cartridges. 
However, no matter how good the Decca is, it doesn't beat a 15 IPS master tape - no way.
I have several cartridges (out of the 70+ I have owned) that are closer to the sound of master tapes than the Decca London Reference. The high-frequency performance of the DLR is certainly not as vivid, crystalline or shimmering as many of my top MM and LOMC cartridges and as mentioned earlier, the width of the sound-stage is disappointingly narrow.
The charm of the DLR is in its sheer 'bravado' and unabashed delight in its presentation of 'SOUND'.
For those used to the inhibited and precisely self-conscious nature of most LOMCs....this can come as somewhat of a revelation. However, for those with an appreciation for the finer vintage MMs, the Decca London sound is merely a confirmation of what true vinyl reproduction can achieve.

Good points, halcro. True, the Decca/London does not have the delicacy in high frequencies of a great moving coil. As with every link in one's Hi-Fi chain, priorities must be chosen, as no one product is better than all others in every way. For me, the main failing in reproduced music is in it's sounding "canned"---a pale, lifeless, soft, thin, diffused, anemic copy of a colorful, vivid, energetic, explosive, full-bodied, whole, original. The Decca/London, for all it's faults, just makes the sound of the instruments and voices contained in the grooves of an LP sound more like their real-life selves than does any other cartridge I've heard. And, perhaps more importantly, the manner in which those instruments are being played and those lyrics being sung. The D/L is a very "physical" transducer, the force with which the bow of a cello or double bass is pulled across the instruments strings being heard and felt (Yo Yo Ma attacks his cello, non unlike how Keith Moon did his drumkit!). How hard a drummer is smacking a drumhead with his sticks can be felt (important to me---I'm a drummer), but so too can the faint sound of ghost notes be heard. The D/L does percussion better than any other cartridge I've heard, with an unequalled dynamic capability. The sound of a guitarists plectrum (pick) hitting the strings---very visceral. Then there is that "in the room, right in front of you" characteristic of the D/L sound, something I crave. Some attribute the D/L's "speed" as the reason for it's excellence in all these regards. Others, it's lack of cantilever "haze", etc. All I know is that instruments and voices sound more whole, fleshed-out with more body (it's as if all the frequencies making up the sound and timbre of an instrument or voice reach the ear at the same time, as in a time-aligned loudspeaker), and transients have more "snap". Hope this doesn't come off as sounding gratuitous or over-the-top!

kmccarty---I've been thinking it over, and here's what I suggest: The $5200 price of the Reference is an awful lot to gamble on a sound you have yet to hear. Some have tried a London, and found it to be too "relentless" or brash (who knows if that was a result of the tone arm used not being up to the task, or the proper 15k/220pF loading not being employed), as may you. Even the $3000 of the Jubilee is a lot to gamble on. I think trying the $1200 Super Gold is a good idea; if you like it enough, you could then move up to the Jubilee or Reference if you want. Don't forget to specify the Decapod! By the way, there is a virtual system (Small Attic Retreat) featured in the Audiogon weekly recap that contains a London Gold or Super Gold (they look identical) fitted with the Decapod. The owners name is jtnicolosi, and he has the London on one of his three tables, a Garrard 301 with a 12" arm (the Schick?).

ct0517---We are going to end up with very similar systems, aren't we? I had forgotten about the $12,000 straight tracking London arm. I've never heard from an owner of one, or seen a review. I couldn't use it on my Rock anyway, or afford it!

topoxforddoc---I have a R2R (Revox A-77 Mk.3), but it's a quarter inch/ quarter track. Have some pre-recorded 7" reels (RCA, Mercury), and those I made myself with a pair of omni condenser mics. But I still need my London cartridges (as well as table and arm), 'cause I can't get the Revox to play my LP's ;-).