First Order Crossovers: Pros and Cons

Hey Sean: this is my first posting ever, but I couldn't resist. If you're watching the midsection then stay away from the Italian beefs--they'll give you a first-order speed bump in no time flat.
Say hi to Chicago for me,
Charlie

I'm going to let everyone know when Bill finishes his own Ohms, and then you're all going to have to get into Philly so that we can all go over to HIS house for a bar b que. Believe me, it's going to be an absolute blast.

As Sean stated, Bill's favorite speakers are probably the Ohms. He has told me several times he considers the Ohms the finest speakers ever produced, once he implements his ideas into them. I spotted them once in his shop, and he just lit up. I asked, "But, they sure are hard to drive, aren't they?" His reply was, "No, when I get done with them, they are incredibly sensitive. They'll play like crazy with no power."

No, he hasn't tackled his own yet, as he dreads working on them due to the labor intensity. He just doesn't want to take time away helping you and I via his business. You must know the man in order to understand. When he does something, he does it better than anyone else has ever done, otherwise he just doesn't do it. Last summer, he painted his wife's car, at what he claimed to be twice what a quality body shop would charge. Why? Because it needs to be to his own standards or else he will drive himself crazy, and no one beyond him can meet those standards. If anyone ever wants to see how detail oriented he ever is, just ask him a couple of questions regarding automotive transmissions. You'll get an education the likes of which no one has ever gotten before.

I strongly believe Bill is the finest speaker guy in the country, if not the world. It's amazing who we hold in such high regard in this industry, while failing to recognize the true genius of the craft.

I haven't read this entire thread, but it's not clear that a particular speaker which is or claims to be time and phase coherent will have a simple crossover network with few parts, although that seems to be the case with Meadowlark and Green Mountain.

Vandersteen and Thiel have involved crossover assemblies, for example.

I think the only real problem associated with first order crossovers, meaning the one problem which can't be mitigated by engineering or setup quality, is the off axis lobing. This lobing will exist, but may or may not be bothersome to a particular person in a particular situation....

As for whether the recorded music itself has any time or phase coherence by the time it winds its way through the rest of the recording and playback chain...who knows? I just think Vandersteen 2Ce Sigs are still a great bargain.

Off-Axis Lobing. Sounds ominous. Frankly, I honestly cannot say the "off-axis" response of my GMA's is a whole lot different than on axis. In fact, these babies sound fine dead center; 30 degree's off axis or three rooms removed from the speakers. Sure, the image is deaper dead center, but they sound fine off axis too. Can't begin to tell you how many people have made that observance with my GMA's. I get the "We are in the Den but those speakers sound great" comment. Three rooms removed. Can you elaborate on what said "Off-axis lobes" might sound like, Suits me? I heard the same comment from Bobby at Merlin, but he would not elaborate. Will you? What do "off-Axis Lobes" sound like?

Off-axis lobing causes non-linear frequency response i.e. added peaks and dips at various points along the curve. The more consistent the dispersion characteristics of the drivers as angle of radiation is altered, the less noticeable the lobing will be. The differences in baffle related diffraction also come into play here, so speakers with a more advanced baffle design will suffer less from this also. I haven't seen pictures of all of Roy's speakers, but i do know that he's very aware of baffle related problems and seems to pay attention to such things. Sean
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