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Capacitor log Mundorf Silver in Oil

I wished I could find a log with information on caps. I have found many saying tremendous improvement etc. but not a detailed account of what the changes have been. I have had the same speakers for many years so am very familiar with them. (25+ years) The speakers are a set of Klipsch Lascala's. They have Alnico magnets in the mids and ceramic woofers and tweeters. The front end is Linn LP12 and Linn pre amp and amp. The speaker wire is 12 gauge and new wire.

I LOVE these speakers around 1 year ago they started to sound like garbage. As many have said they are VERY sensitive to the components before them. They are also showing what I think is the effect of worn out caps.

There are many out here on these boards I know of that are using the Klipsch (heritage) with cheaper Japanese electronics because the speakers are cheap! (for what they can do) One thing I would recommend is give these speakers the best quality musical sources you can afford. There is a LOT to get out of these speakers. My other speakers are Linn speakers at around 4k new with Linn tri-wire (I think about 1k for that) and the Klipsch DESTROY them in my mind. If you like "live feel" there is nothing like them. In fact it shocks me how little speakers have improved in 30 years (or 60 years in the Khorns instance)

In fact I question Linn's theory (that they have proved many times) that the source is the most important in the Hi-Fi chain. Linn's theory is top notch source with lessor rest of gear including speakers trumps expensive speakers with lessor source. I think is right if all things are equal but Klipsch heritage are NOT equal! They make a sound and feel that most either LOVE or hate. (I am in the LOVE camp and other speakers are boring to me)

So here goes and I hope this helps guys looking at caps in the future. Keep in mind Klipsch (heritage Khorns Belle's and Lascala's especially) are likely to show the effects of crossover changes more then most.

1 The caps are 30 years old and
2 the speakers being horn driven make changes 10x times more apparent.

Someone once told me find speakers and components you like THEN start to tweak if needed. Don't tweak something you not in love with. Makes sense to me.

So sound
Record is Let it Be (Beatles)
The voices are hard almost sounds like a worn out stylus.
Treble is very hard. I Me Mine has hard sounding guitars. Symbals sound awful. Everything has a digital vs. analog comparison x50! Paul's voice not as bad as John's and George's. Voices will crack.

different lp
Trumpets sound awful. Tambourine terrible. Bass is not great seems shy (compared to normal) but the bad caps draw soooooo much attention to the broken up mid range and hard highs that are not bright if anything it seems the highs are not working up to snuff. I have went many times to speaker to make sure tweeters are even working.

All in all they sound like crap except these Klipsch have such fantastic dynamics that even when not right they are exciting!

Makes me wonder about the people who do not like them if they are hearing worn out caps and cheap electronics? Then I can see why they do not like them! If I did not know better from 25+ years of ownership that would make sense.

For the new crossover I have chosen Mundorf Silver in Oil from what I have read and can afford. I want a warm not overly detailed sound as Klipsch already has lots of detail and does not need to be "livened up" they need lush smooth sounding caps. Hope I have made the right choice?

When the crossover is in I will do a initial impression on same lp's. Right now it goes from really bad (on what may be worn vinyl) to not as bad but NOT great on great vinyl. (I know the quality of the vinyl because tested on other speakers Linn)

The new caps are Mundorf Silver in Oil and new copper foil inductors are coming. I will at the same time be rewiring the speakers to 12 guage from the lamp cord that PWK put in. PWK was a master at getting very good sound often with crap by today's standards components.

The choice of speakers would be a toss up now depending on what I am listening to. Klipsch vastly more dynamic but if the breaking up of the sound becomes to much to effect enjoyment the Linn would be a better choice on that Lp. If I could I would switch a button back and forth between speakers depending on song and how bad the break-up sound was bothering me.

volleyguy
grannyring's avatar
grannyring
6,441 posts
 
I bypassed the output caps in my Lampizator today with Wima caps. Just like you said Salectric there seemed to be better highs and more air, but after 3 hours....no go. Things were to bright and emphasized in the highs.

My preamp bypass caps in the power supply did not do that however and worked perfectly with no negatives. So, in the right position, value, and gear they can indeed work. As I have said, it depends on the gear and not so much personal preference or ears. Nobody would say my preamp was better sounding before the bypass mod. Most would not like the bypass cap sound on my Lampizator on the output cap. Certainly nobody in my home did.

I am going to wait on those Jupiter caps for my Lampi! Instead of Duelund I am going to try these new ones. I will do so as I hear they will cost less.
grannyring's avatar
grannyring
6,441 posts
 
Salectric, I also agree with you that personal preference can in some instances certainly play a role.

Emailed Ric at EVS and I used the wrong value Wima as a bypass in my Lampizator and will try the mod again once I get the right value. I will report back!
regismc
112 posts
 
For yrs. I rolled preamp coupling caps. Multicaps, Sonicap Platinums, Clarity MRs, Mundorf S//G/O, CuTf V-Cap. JFX Premium, Dueland Cast,
mostly .22s, never in bypass mode. I also rolled most of those, including Dueland Alexander's thru a pr. of Mig 6c33c monos. I've two systems, one up, one down, each w/3 10g runs to an isolated subpanel. The 3 down r on Isoclean gold outlets, the 3 up, Watt gate silvers.

One day while wondering what to do w/all the used caps I took a closer look inside a power conditioner. Some tiny little .01s from neutral to ground
were replaced by .22s & so the experiment began that lasted well over a yr.

The outlets in the conditioner, mine had 5 duplexes out, w/ two individual legs in, also effect the sound. I replaced several of the orange hospital grade outlets w/Oyaide R-0s. You'd have to hear the two side by side in a neutrally cabled system, but the R-0s definitely bring 'more' to the table, after a bit of break in.

For the longest time I couldn't figure out how to utilize the CuTf Vs. They
definitely brought something special no other cap did, but alone or matched w/other .22s in the conditioner they were 'relentless', not forgiving & ultimately unmusical. So I kept taking them out. In retrospect they seemed
'tight', almost 'driven', but to much so.

They really do take what seems like forever to break in, to loosen up When I first tried matching them up w/the 3.3uf S/G/O I was pretty shocked at how they seemed to bring out the best of each. That proportion seems about right. The 'disconnect' when matching two different cap types, was mostly absent. I say mostly, because I think the V-Caps still needed additional break in. Evan so, the combo was special. Music had robust drive plus the dimensionality & focus, something akin to what a Amprex Bugle Boy brings to the table in a nice preamp. Depth & width, perhaps not the height.

That's pretty high praise. Those who've heard such & know their Mullards from their Amprex's, know the life & 'sparkle', the extended treble that leaves ones ears 'hungary', that bit of 'special dimensionality' that is difficult to find. Mullard in comparison r your favorite comfy slippers. Easy to wear, friendly, but perhaps a bit mishapen.

I run that conditioner mostly feeding a Yamaha A-S2000. CDS-2000. & Kef LS-50s. A very transparent, neutral, & spacious combination. When I do swap in another amp/pre/spkr or frontend, the basic character remains.

One other note or subject I'd like to address. After playing w/this combo I'd take issue w/those who claim, say the Kef LS-50 is only a 'near field' speaker. Clean power & conditioning make any speaker much more effective in filling a room. These little guys go plenty low @ good volume levels. They have coherency & dynamics & show any & all upstream changes, especially cables, ect... If it is warm it is warm, if it is rounded it is rounded. You will hear exactly what your 59' Valvo rectifier, your 6sn7 metal base, or your favorite silver speaker wire brings to the table, & you may be surprised! Can you handle the truth? I ended up stripping out many of the 'tweaks' accumulated over the years, including larger speakers.

In my room, effective passive conditioning went a long ways to bringing truth & beauty, (CuTf V-Cap & Mundorf Silver/Gold/Oil) 2gether.
ricevs
1,515 posts
 
You cannot tell how a cap sounds after 3 hours. Modded Wima caps need a couple of days before they settle down. The value of the bypass cap will also effect the frequency balance. Generally the smaller values add air and as you make the cap larger it will add some warmth. You must damp the bypass cap and the main cap. You cannot dangle a cap in the air on bare solid core leads (it will act like a pitchfork .....this will sound bright and horrible). You must clamp the bypass cap down (and not with double stick scotch tape...this ruins the sound) and also you must damp any solid core lead on the bypass cap with cotton sleeving (unless the leads are very short).

Perfecting takes patience.
grannyring's avatar
grannyring
6,441 posts
 
Thanks Ric. I did all the damping with the Wimas. That is something I have always done. No, I did not let them play for days as I could not stand the etched sound. I always wait for burn in, but after emailing you and knowing I had the wrong value, I just pulled the plug!

Looking forward to round two. Also looking forward to hearing the new Jupiter caps. Duelund needs more competition so their prices come down. Competition is good for us all on these mega dollar caps!
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