All Amps Sound the Same....

MrTennis, I've never read anything in a spec sheet that gave me the slightest clue on how an amp sounds. I'm not sure we are even measuring the right parameters.

No, Jedinite24, just can't understand why somebody would make that statement unless they have just started in HI-FI or never had the bucks for a good amp. Just a discussion, that's all.

hi russ69:

my point is that one should not trust the senses. it's one thing to be confident that there is a difference between two amps, its another to know it and prove it is true,.

there is no valid proof that is based upon sensation.

sensation is a form of opinion in that there is a probability that the sensation is true and a probability that it is false.

all statements which assert superiority of one component over another , or an attempt to describe the sound of a component can not be knowledge, hence they are probabilistic.

"hi russ69: my point is that one should not trust the senses."

I use my ears, to listen to my HI-FI. I can listen to a pair of amps and tell you which one I like better. It may not be better by measured criteria but I can decide if it sounds better to me. If the two amps under test are very close in sound, then I will have to spend some time with each one. Sometimes a long time. After a while and some evaluation, I can pick the one I like.
I trust my senses, if I have the time to test things out. After all we are using one of our senses to enjoy HI-FI. Can I be misled? Sure, but not for a long period of time. I trust my ears. I surely can tell when something sounds like crap. I don't need any supporting documentation for that.

****my point is that one should not trust the senses****

Mrtennis, I truly admire the steadfastness of your very didactic approach to things audio (and, I suspect, other matters as well). But, I can't help but react to what is probably one of the most provocative statements that I have ever read in a music/audio forum. Not trust one's senses? Huh?!?!

This points to what I think is one of the key underlying issues in disagreements among audiophiles; disagreements about the merits or flaws of equipment, design concepts, and the technology of music playback in general.

What I refer to is inextricable connections between the humanity (senses) of the performers of the music, the humanity (senses) of the listener, and the techno-quagmire (audio equipment) that is a kind of necessary evil along the way. The senses cannot be ignored, and most definitely should be trusted. I suppose this all points to differences between different types of personalities, but music is all about emotion and the senses. The technology used to capture it and play it back has to honor that fact if it is to be truly successful. The best audio designers know this. The numbers must always take a back seat to the senses. One has to trust one's senses and emotions. That is what gives all this true meaning.

the senses are unreliable. witnesses to an event often present different versions of an event.

what you hear one day, you may not hear on another.

there is a myriad of experiemnets in the psycholgy journals, which discuss the unreliability of perception.

when you trust your senses, the result is probably true and probably false.

most audio discussions are philosophical disccsions.

they have no definitive conclusion.

let me give you an example.

suppose two people are auditioning a stereo system. the evaluation by each one will probably differ, one from the other.

in my hypothetical example, it is impossible to determine which assessment is true and which is false.

in fact "truth" and "false" are hard to establish in these audio discussions.