Yeah, I've been wondering if the m-lore and maybe oriel as well have a little different character than the lore itself. The lack of whizzer has to do something, and I wonder if it might not shift the overall frequency balance just slightly lower.
As for me, I have some tentative plans in place to be auditioning the Lore-S in my home in the coming weeks. Won't be all that soon,and I won't have benefit of side by side comparison with my Lores, as we're swapping for a period of time. I'll be sure to post my impressions though. |
Can anyone offer some insight as to how the Oriels differ from the Lores, design and sound-wise? |
still not sure on the m-lore's lower frequency reproduction; might sacrifice my custom veneer if they haven't sold out of the Oriel 10 yet. Seems that the Oriel 10 and M-lore drivers are reasonably similar. |
well i placed an order for satin white m-lore's yesterday, eric told me 5-6 days before it ships, so i'll post some thoughts when it arrives, thanks for the stereomojo link too, nice read |
Posted about M-Lore last night, don't know why it didn't show up, but the M-Lore got the Major Mojo Award. |
MrKoven - I am not sure if anybody here has a m-lore yet? Anybody...? The m-lore has certainly been overlooked, but with 2 spectacular reviews now, obviously it has slipped under the radar (though that is about to change). I owned Lores prior to upgrading to Pendragons,and I easily could have lived with them for a long time. I think, in your room, you can't go wrong w either, but ,why not save a few and go with the m-lore. I certainly would for a small room system. Your amp should be great. Keep us informed. |
re: Genjamon
It's funny you mention the M-lore as I was also considering these for my needs since they are smaller and cheaper than the Lore. They also use a soft dome tweeter which I ususally like more than metal domes.
The only problem is no one has heard the M-lore, except for the review poseted by Michael02467 which basically says the M-lore is a nicer speaker than the 2x priced ZU Omen which if true is pretty amazing.
Anyone here have experiance with the Mini Lore? |
Great review
http://www.stereomojo.com/TEKTON%20MLORE%20SPEAKER%20REVIEW/TektonM-loreSpeakerReview.htm |
trying to decide between the m-lore and lore for a guest room approx 14x16... will be using a 40w idecco, about 75% movies 25% music... wondering how the bass is on the m-lore and any input would be appreciated thanks |
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8wpc should be more than enough for dynamic headroom issues with a 98dB sensitive speaker. With big, wideband drivers like this, though, damping might be more of a factor than sheer watts. Just a thought.
Oh, and I like that Manley Stingray quite a lot. Nice matchup there. |
In general, all things equal, more power = more control. But it is also true that the lower power SETS and class A tube amps may give you a sweeter, more "romantic" type of sound but at the expense of headroomm, spl, etc. You should be fine. |
Sabocat - I have a 2A3 SET and also recently a Manley Stingray. The Stingray uses 8 EL84 tubes for outputs. The Lores sound great on the SET but even better with the Stingray. I'm in a 12'x13' room, so the SET can play loud enough. The PPP adds a lot more weight and thump.
I doubt you'll feel you have a mismatch with your EL34 amp. |
I have a question. I'm currently running Dali Helicon 400 speakers with a hand made JWN tube amplifier rated somewhere in the neighborhood of 100 watts per channel--8 el34 output tubes. I'm curious how the Lore's would sound with this particular amp, or would I need one of JIM's lower-powered creations to really get the most out of the Lore's. I guess I should say that Jim's amps have a well-deserved rep for creating a well-defined, almost 3D soundstage presentation. |
Just an FYI to those with Lores:
I modified mine by lining ther upper cabinet with Dynamat Extreme, and in my system I am very pleased with the improvement. They sound more solid.
I used the stuff they sell at Best Buy @ $90, enough to do 2 car doors is about the perfect amount for a pair of Lores. There are other sources that cost less, but I'm either lazy or rich (I'll let you guess which) so I just went to BB. It took about 30 min per speaker. Soldering iron (need to unhook the 10" driver), scissors, phillips screwdriver, and a wallpaper roller is all you need.
If you want pics or have questions, send me a PM. |
Gooddomino - fo to JW audio (zman;'s website). And try out some of his cables. You want to detail; you will have it. :)
The best cables I have heard in my system, period! |
Impressive review, Socrates! Thank you for your time and dedication to writing that up. I think what you have described is essentially the capstone of audio loudspeaker design, particularly in the type of transducer technology, voicing and ultimately to what the designer wants to accomplish. It took me 15 speakers to learn what I preferred. The Maggie’s are surely on “that” end of the spectrum - break taking detail capabilities and extremely revealing, but to my ear they lack the emotional qualities – such as musicality and harmonic texture.
But I would argue that the Pens are also very detailed, in the sense that they convey all of the music and are not rolled off. As you pointed out on the Pendragon, the triple SB Acoustic tweeter array is doing allot of the work, so it’s certainly not all on the drivers. The tweeters are some of the best i have heard, and I have owned Esotar2 tweeters. I think allot of this has to do with comparing the two technologies, as you most certainly did a great job of – ribbons are almost always unforgiving, but highly detailed to the point that one can hear into the recording like never before. The danger of this type of detail level is that while can one will hear everything, one will hear EVERYTHING. On the other hand, a speaker like the Lore/Pendragon, trades off detail for the ability to be more forgiving, more convincing as a “live music” transducer, and high on the emotional content because it can be run with lower powered tube amps which most of us would agree, is the main reason why we get the great tone and harmonic textures that make the presentation so satisfying to listen to.
And, therein lies the fork in the road, where one is either an audiophile, or a music lover... or as in your case, one can appreciate both. |
Hi all ! I am getting as much detail from my Lore's than I do with my Thiel 1.6's , using the same system . Power Plant Premier , Cary 303 / 300 , Cary Slp -03 , Belles a150 ( for the next couple days until my Paramounts are done). Mostly Tara wire with some LAT and Vansevers in there. Love these Lore's as they are not the usual "hi fi " sound , wish my room was big enough for the Pendragons . |
Detail is a bit of a two-edged sword, if you ask me. Too much and suddenly that's all you're hearing. I think this is what Srajan means when he uses the term "pixelated".
That said, I'm sure the new SEAS drivers he's using for the Lore S, and the next as-yet-unnamed speaker that will be offered at some point as an alternative to a Wilson Sophia (!!!), will have more of this "hi-fi" (as Eric calls it) character to the sound. Hopefully, Eric will be sending a pair of the Lore S on at some point, so I'll be able to do an apples-to-apples comparison between it and the Pendragon.
But if you want more of that sound, now, then sure, cooler cables (check out the new Black Cats), or a more detailed amp like the FirstWatts, might add more back into the mix. But the limiting factor will be the drivers and my understanding is that this isn't really the forte of these Eminence drivers, which are more about impact, immediacy and realism.
Check out 6moons. Srajan has reviewed more Eminence-driver-based speakers (ie, Zu) than anyone else I can think of and he's got a whole stable full of amplifiers to play with. He tends to favor the Red Wine for visceral impact, but it's the Yamamoto A-08s (a very linear 45-based amp) and various First Watt amps he reaches for when he wants "air" and detail -- at least when he's reviewing Zu speakers. Given that the Tekton implementation is similar (same drivers, but different crossovers), I expect that the results Srajan gets should be very portable. |
Wonderful last post Socrates. I'm just a Lore owner and have been very happy with the sound I'm getting. Wondering if a more detailed DAC might force more detail into these full range drivers? Or are they just not capable of presenting detail? |
Thanks for the kind words!
I think the Pendragons are most definitely "rock speakers". They play REALLY LOUD and the sound quality is as clear as a bell, even with only moderately powered amps. I believe they were actually designed to do this very thing -- to recreate the scale and scope of live music with the scale and scope of live music. That is, big sound stage, high SPLs, and an easy/dynamic sound. To that end, they're just tremendous.
I got this CD for Christmas, a gift from my wife. It's called "Lorraine" from Lori McKenna. The first track is "The Luxury of Knowing". It's a country tune, and not really my cuppa, but there's this bass note that gets dropped into the tune that sounds like nothing I've ever heard before. On the Pendragons, the note is huge, round, deep -- you hear the over tones, the under tones, the fullness of the thing in a way that a near-full range speaker simply will never capture. It's like the Pendragon has "headroom" to spare on even a note that deep, so the entirety of the thing is captured and presented. And all that to say that the bass on these things is just stunning. And if you've never heard true full range speakers, that is, something that can do subwoofer depth, you've been missing stuff. A lot of stuff. To me, right now, it feels like an unacceptable amount of stuff. My eyes are still wide with the shock at how much I've been missing. Holy freakin' cow.
Whew.
Okay, now, that said, the Pendragons sound a lot like Zu speakers, so if you like that sort of thing and/or that makes sense, great. This also means that these are not speakers for the detail-freak. Borrowing a turn of phrase from Srajan, there's absolutely no pixelation and at not time will detail cause you to lose track of the music. Widebanders tend to do audiophile-level detail rather poorly anyway, and speakers voiced warmly like the Pendragons are, are perhaps even more guilty of this. Not to say that detail is lost, per se, all I'm saying is that the Pendragons don't emphasize this in the way that many audiophile speakers might.
To get an idea of what I'm talking about, well, I also own a pair of Magnepan 3.7s, which cut the line between detail and smoothness rather even handedly, being neither pixelated nor smooth, they're simply revealing. If the recording is detailed, the sound is detailed. If the recording is smooth, the sound is smooth. If the recording blows, well. With the Pendragons, the sound is more forgiving than the Maggies, and by a good measure. The Pendragons fail my "Cricket Test" -- on "Roadhouses and Automobiles", a great Chris Jones tune (also country flavored, but that shouldn't be held against me), the engineer added in a bunch of crickets to the opening sequence that are clear as daylight on my AKG-701 headphones, a bit less so on my Maggies, and outright hard to hear on my Merlin VSM-MXR speakers. The Tekton Pendragons fall closer to the Merlins than to the Maggies, that is, until I turn up the volume significantly. The detail is there, yes, it's just that it's not standing out in contrast to the other transducers I have/had on hand. Whether or not this is good thing or a bad thing depends entirely on your listening habits, your needs, your playback chain, blah blah blah.
Now, this is not to say they're veiled in any way. They are most definitely not. Overall, the immediacy is arresting and the tweeter array on the Pendragon is clear and sweet. I'm not getting any hotness, glare or grain out of the treble on these things so Metallica, Ozzy, and Judas Priest sound just as loud and obnoxious and as poorly recorded as they ever do. In a word, those meat heads sound awesome on these speakers.
A note about the upper mids. These drivers tend to go into breakup in this region (see the Stereophile measurements on the Zu speaker -- these are relevant because this is the same driver, minus the whizzer cones and phase plug). Tekton crosses over to the tweeter array before the breakup region, which limits the Eminence drivers to their comfort zone. I've noticed no notching or suckouts, so I'm assuming this means they've solved some of the Zu measurement issues.
Anyway, I think these speakers are hilariously awesome. Full range for $2500? Are you out of your mind?
I find myself grinning like a maniac every time someone drops a heavy beat line into the mix. Like hip hop? These speakers are gonna make you turn off your subs, pack them up and sell 'em on AudiogoN. Like techno? Ambient? Anything with an artificially deep bass track? The 'dragons will have you in stitches and can easily be used to stun or kill small animals. |
Or for a bedroom system you could consider going for the Lore-M. It might not be quite as placement-sensitive without the whizzer cone, and also might do better at a closer range. Probably subtle differences, and I wouldn't know for sure, only having heard the Lore. |
The Lores will be fine for that type of music, but even better with your live rock recordings. I don't listen to MEtallica per say anymore, but I do listen to mostly rock and some harder stuff. The Lores a definitely not too soft and certainly not going to be bright either. They are very neutral but designed to sound like live music, opposed to a hi Fi sound... If that makes sense. Agood tube amp 10+ watts and you should be a happy guy. |
How do the lores sound with something like old Metallica? I listen in a small bedroom, so really deep bass and super loud volumes are not required. I'm more concerned about ooverloading the room with too much treble, or with an upper midrange that is too forward ( Audio Note AX-Two for example). I also dont want a super veiled forgiving sound that makes every recording sound soft and uninvolving. These will be used at a relatively short distance of about 5-6 feet.
My other musical interest include a lot of 90's alternative and some Rap/Hip Hop.
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Great blog Socrates. I was there the other day and really enjoyed looking around.
I noticed your pic on the Asylum looked like a Tri Corp. amp, maybe EL 34s? I have Lores and was pleasantly surprised when I went from a 4-watt SET to a 20/40 watt EL84 PP amp. My guess is you experienced similar when you upped the amp with the Pendragons.
Thanks for posting and for the blog. |
Nice Socrates.....I have pair number two coming shortly....what are the strengths and weaknesses? Your favorite music on them? |
Nice Socrates.....I have pair number two coming shortly....what are the strengths and weaknesses? Your favorite music on them? |
Thanks for posting. Yes we have beem following your blog. So what do you think so far. My Pendragons broke in fast because this time I used a 200 watt ss amp to do the job. So are you getting strong dynamics and bass with 3 watts? The 4 ohm variant needs about 10 I would say. Congrats and welcomes. They are a unique offering that's for sure. Are you thinking giant killer???? |
Got my 8-ohm Pendragons last week, first of this type off the line.
I can't post pics in the thread, so you'll have to hit my blog to be able to see what I'm seeing right now: parttimeaudiophile.com or wp.me/p1ae3a-oQ.
I had completely forgotten what listening to full range speakers is like! |
And I call the next speaker to be a a Seas based Pendragon! No offical word of it but I would assume that's next on the radar. As for me, I really like the "live" music sound of the Pro drivers. It's hard to go back to "toy" audio after getting used to it... but it's all good. ;o) |
I talked to Eric yesterday about the new options, trying to sort out a recommendation for my brother. He said the Lore-S uses Seas drivers, a step above the Lore in refinement. There's a rub, however. As the Eminence in the base Lore is designed as a pro-audio driver, Eric said it has more punch than the driver in the Lore-S. The Seas driver, on the other hand, will have more of a regular hi-fi sound. The Lore-S driver is also 8" as opposed to the Lore's 10", and the cabinet is thus a little narrower. |
Now even a new model on the website calles the Lore S . I wish he would maybe join the discussion and give us news about the newer models |
cant speak for the omens , but the lores are not a single driver speaker singleguy. just to set the record straight. |
You will have to look under the speaker category. Sounds yummy |
Check this out guys!! http://parttimeaudiophile.com/ |
Thanks Morganc and Sebrof - that is definitely reassuring. My room size will work too then I assume? To let you know where I am coming from, I have 2 sets of Tannoy HPD-385A drivers in 2 different cabinets (Arden, homebuilt). I'll keep one set and sell the other to fund the Lores...
I have 5 different amplifiers, including pure Class A solid state, 2 tripath-based amps, 300B, and conventional A/B solid state. I know that I will be able to get a good match with at least one of them, as all sound very good with the Tannoys.
Thanks for the input and information! |
Singleguy - I agree with Morganc. In my smaller (12' x 13') room I need to be very careful with placement of both Omen and Lore to avoid too much bass. I think you would be surprised at the 10" driver they both use. Big enough for a big sound, but still provides a lot of what a single driver speaker delivers. I don't find the Lores thin at all (nor the Omens which I no longer own). |
Singleguy: yes, both the Zu and the Lore excel in the human vocal range. That is where they are at their best at least in my set-up. |
I have read the thread, and I am trying to get a handle on the sound. I like a live sound, but not with a thinness like single driver speakers seem to do. Does the Lore have some weight to the sound in the all important male vocal range? My room will be about 15 x 19...
Thanks! |
Yes, either speaker would pair well with the Nova. Zu paired with Peachtree for their Holiday sales in 2010 actually, and for the price and flexibility, it would get you started on a very nice system with either speaker. Though, neither of these commonly show up used. However you can find Zu specials on EBay and the Tektons are right at $1000 new. |
I'm looking to spend about $1000 on floor standing speakers, which will be paired with a Peachtree Nova, playing digital music as well as using a turntable. Would either of these speakers match well with the Nova?
Thanks! |
Guys - I wouldn't be concerned about the cross-over. Eric uses a very simple approach, and the Lore is crossed over very high (around 3khz). Not sure about he M-lore but I think I rememer Eric telling me it is similar. Lets not get trapped into that type of thinking - rather it is all of the parts of the system that make up the whole. Eric's aptitude is in the execution of these things. Those of us that own his products can attest to that. There are many x-overless speakers that don't sound anywhere near as good.
No speaker I have owned can touch the Pendragon from a total package standpoint, and for those that just joined this thread, that includes:
Greybeard Audio KB ($9.5K and all Scan Speak)
Dynaudio Focus 220 II, Confidence C1 monitors, and A70's
Von Schweikert Audio VR-4 Jr Mk II
Quad ESL 989 (although these excel in mid range)
Martin Logan Ascent
PSB Synchrony One, and Stratus Gold I's
Silverline SR12
Rega RS7
The Tektons are phenominal speakers - it is a giant blessing to not have to be chasing the speaker train anymore like I had been since '08 ;) In addition to that, I never get tired of listening to the Pens... yet every other speaker I owned did not have that lasting affect. Go figure... |
Yeah Zman, that's kind of disappointing that the speaker has a crossover. I was kind of jazzed to try one without, knowing how many people feel that crossovers muck up the sound.
Thanks for the tube amp recommendations. The Stingray looks sweet but I think it comes without a remote. I tend to make small volume adjustments while listening so not having this would be a bit of an inconvenience. Still, I will consider it as sound and build quality trump convenience. The Niteshade stuff looks fantastic. Never heard of this company before but they are definitely an option as well. It looks like they will build basically any amp you want, and what they've done in the past looks first rate. |
Anybody order or has received a pair of the Oriel 10 ? I talked to Eric and explained that I use digital sources via a DAC and through a Dared tube pre and pair of Dared tube mono blocks (18wpc). I am fairly eclectic with my music and listen to everything from Celtic to dubstep / Techno. I was / am a bit afraid of trusting a full range speaker to handle the differet music types but Eric assures me the Oriel can handle it all.
Thoughts ? |
Sebrof.
It's interesting that you have seen a cross-over in the Lore. From all indications, the Lore is supposed to be a full range with a high pass capacitor in the tweeter.
I never looked inside the one I had, but what you're discribing is a cross-over. |
Fusion, you can also look at Niteshade Audio for amps in your price range. |
Fusion: Go for a Decware or a Manley. I had a mini Torii from Decware with the Lores and it was an amazing combination in my bedroom which is about the size of your room. Although for rock you may want want to check out one of the Decware amps with a few more watts.
If you have questions about the speakers, I would call the owner and ask him. Tell him your preferences and the size of your room and he can tell you what would be the best speaker for you. |
Fusion - I have Lores in a 12 x 13' room and they do not overload. I also have a pair of Tekton Katz Meow (8" main driver)and they play great in here, too. I don't think you'll have any problems with the M-Lores being too big. FWIW - I've had Maggies, Logans, and KHorns in here. They were all too big, although I didn't realize it until I started playing smaller speakers.
I don't know about the M-Lore, but the Lore has a crossover. I thought it was just a cap before the tweeter until yesterday when I looked inside. A couple of coils, a few resistors and a few caps looks like a crossover to me. I don't know the crossover points.
I've had a 2A3 SET amp that I built in my rig for the past couple of years or so and loved it. The other day I got a Manley Stingray for just under your budget and like it a lot with the Lores. It's got the detail of the SET but with balls. I like it a lot better (for now, anyway). The Stingray uses Parallel Push Pull EL84s. I can recommend the Manley, but there are many choices for $1500. |
Analogue fan I will be looking forward to it |
Hi everyone,
I've got a few questions with respect to the M-Lore. I am leaning towards buying this speaker sometime in 2012 as part of my first step into high efficiency speakers mated to a tube amp. Questions:
1. My room is about 13 x 11 - on the small side. Is the M-Lore too large? I worry because when I tried a pair of Monitor Audio RX2, with the 8" woofer and rear port, it overloaded the room. I'm sure the front ports on the Tekton will help with this but I'm still a little worried.
2. Think I read this info somewhere but I can't find it now. Please describe the crossover (or lack thereof). I believe it is just a cap in front of the tweeter with the woofer running full range. Is this right, and what frequencies does each driver handle?
3. I will consider tube amps (new or used) in the range of $1,500. Integrateds with four inputs and a volume control are preferred. SET or push-pull? I listen to mostly rock music. I'd like to buy American, European, or Japanese, but might consider some of the more respected Chinese brands. Any suggestions? Brands that have caught my eye so far are: Rogue, Almarro, Decware, Pure Sound, and Primaluna (latter two are made in China I believe). I assume the likes of ARC, Unison, and Mastersound are out of my price range. Thanks! |
