The Omen has 34hz bass responce. I doubt if one could hear the difference.
And the price difference is the real edge. |
>>"The biggest differance that I've been able to read about is that the Lore has cabinet dampening, 30hz bass responce, Phase control and a tweeter that is second to none."<<
The Omen has the ZURG loading, 30hz bass response, and I assume it has phase control (the Maine driver is set out and tweeter is recessed) and I assume a good tweeter also. |
The biggest differance that I've been able to read about is that the Lore has cabinet dampening, 30hz bass responce, Phase control and a tweeter that is second to none.
I don't know if it sound will be better or not. On paper and price, it has an edge. |
I haven't read a post anywhere from anyone who has heard both.
My guess would be that different amps and rooms will influence the sound more than the difference between Omen and Lore just by looking and reading about them. This type of conjecture will likely be the closest you'll get until someone compares both. |
If you would have to simplify things, what would be the house sound of the lores and the house sound of the omens 9from people who have heard both). |
I agree with sebrof....enjoy guys:). Are any of you with the Lores in the Bay Area. I would love to compare them to my Omen Defs. They sound very similar based on your descriptions. |
Gp - That's awesome. You guys with the Lores really seem to like them, and I haven't heard a bad thing about them yet. Enjoy!! |
I am just going to come out and say it guys! I have crossed the 150 hour mark now. I have listened to my entire CD collection. The honeymoon phase is over. Look folks, it is official. Eric is giving these speakers away! Again, I am just a normal guy - no affiliation with Tekton Design - 3 kids and a limited budget. I have downsized from a $14K rig, to this $5K rig, and have not missed a beat. I will say it again - the Lores are the BEST speakers I have heard in any room I have had. From an overall standpoint, better than any speaker I've owned, and up there with the best. This includes a pair of Dynaudio Confidence C1's ($7,600 w/ stands), PSB Synchrony Ones ($5K), and Quad ESL 989's ($8,500). To see the full list, email me or refer back to an earlier post. Sure, Dynaudio's Esotar 2 tweeter can hardly be touched in terms of detail, and the accuracy and pinpoint focus of a C1 is hard to beat. Likewise, the mid range, tonal quality, musicality, and emotional involvement of the Quads is untouchable, but from a full package standpoint, which to me, includes: full range capability, detail, transparency, balance, phase response, musicality, detail, micro detail, mid range, bass, tone, dynamics, efficiency, and band for buck ... the Lore is the hands down winner!! I see this as the possible future direction in high end audio. Grab yourself 25 high qaulity tube watts, and the Lores will play over 100db, clean!!! No problem.
I am completely amazed by the bass and dynamics of the Lore. But even better it is the real deal - the complete package - a beauitful deep soundstage, breathtaking vocals/midrange, transparency, air and detail, and a tight, thick and rich low end with plenty of extension. Perhaps someone more critical or experienced than I would find a single fault with it. I did with all other speakers I owned; but not with the Lore, not yet anyway. Granted, it is not rational to expect the Lore to play down into the 20's. But on stuff one would it expect it to do, it delivers well beyond expectations. One thing is for sure - the $850 price is not going to be going for long, but even at a grand these are a bargain. |
Mark, much respect to you brother. After all, you were the guy that started this thread and got me looking in this direction anyway. Question: a couple months back that wrote that you initially liked the Omens, but there were a few issues to contend with. What were those issues and what did you end up doing? |
Gpowered - I couldn't agree more when you mention "some of yo out there that do not take this product seriously because of the lower price tag." When I saw the ad for the Katz Meow I really didn't think there was any way it would compete with the speakers I had at the time (Klipschorns) because of the price and the size. I spoke to Eric and he basically said to give it a try, I might be surprised. My KHorns have been in the TV room connected to the XBox since I got the Katz last year.
The Katz were my first Full Rangers, the Omens my 2nd. There's something to be said for a crossover-less in a well built, well designed cabinet. |
Sebrof - good to hear you are happy with the Omens. I have heard mixed comments about them. I can understand you going that route since you own a pair of Tektons already. But as far as looks, I disagree on that! The Lore is a much better looking speaker IMO and easier to set up with port in the front. The Omens would surely have to be lifted. Eric is also more flexible in terms of customizing the product. He is all about voice of the customer. I handpicked and sourced my internal wiring. For another buyer, he is designing one with rear ports.
Another important fact to mention, is one has to remember that Eric is a carpenter, as well as an electronics guy, so he is able to keep is overhead down by doing everything himself. That is a huge advantage to the end user. There is very little non value added activity costs to pass down to the customer. Lastly, he doesn't spend big $ on advertising, so that explains why he is able to address weaknesses in his $850 model Lore. The customer is essentially paying little, if anything for R&D and design teamÂ’s paycheck. This is great news for us! Just think this is important information for some of yo out there that do not take this product seriously because of the lower price tag. This price will surely not last when people start to realize how good it is. |
Hi Sukihocck - a major advantage of the Lore is its ability to run full range from the Eminence driver. The tweeter never calls attention to itself. I cannot distinquish the mids from the treble like most conventional speakers - it is truly seamless in that regard. Yes, the Audax tweeter only handles 3Khz and up so this is basically a x-overless design.
As far as the temperature/tone... that will depend entirely on your front end. The Lore is extremely transparent. But I am surely tube biased. You can read my previous comments to have an idea of what it sounds like with single ended and Quicksilver amps. Driven with a good front end and source, there are really no flaws to mention. The Quicksilver combination is perfec IMO. |
Everything you guys (Zman, Gpowered) are saying about the Lore I am saying about the Omen. I'm driving them with a DIY 2A3 SE amp and they are absolutely fantastic. It took me a while to get them set up properly, specifically playing with speaker to floor gap since they are bottom porting. But once I found the sweet spot I've been very happy. It was much harder to get my Omens sounding good than my Tektons (not Lore)
At $850 for the Lore and $1,000 for the Omen I'd say it's a toss up - Save $150 with the Lore or get a better looking product with the Omen. But now that Zu has raised to $1,500 I'd say that most would get better value from the Lore. As a Tekton owner (Katz) I can vouch for Eric's craftsmanship and great sound, he knows what he's doing. Same with Zu.
It's good to see the passion from 2 small shops, hand building their stuff and delivering such value. Very nice. |
Gpowered - since you've owned so many speakers I'll ask you. Do the Lore's super-tweeter call attention to itself? How would you characterize the overall temperature of the speakers's overall tone? I really wanted a pure full range speaker. I'm assuming there's no x-over on the 10" and just some sort of filter on the super-tweeter? How well do the two elements complement each other? BTW, to all concerned about lack of professional reviews, I too prefer this type of real consumer feedback to make my purchasing decisions. Glad I found this post on the Lore!! |
Thanks to all who have increased my confidence in throwing my next hard earned dollars Eric's way. Yeah I spoke to him recently about the Model 81en with the Fostex FE206en driver. I just sold my Sierra-1 here and I was looking to replace with another monitor. Just sick of the crossover designs and that's what lead me to Eric. I agree though he seems like a good guy and it's frankly refreshing to know that so many of you are getting a realistic performance return for your dollar. I'll just have to decide whether to go with the 81en ($475) or Lore ($850). My room is about 12x15x8. The Sierra's were plenty for a room this size but the Lore's are quite tempting. |
Sukihock - wise choice, I admit I have not heard the latter, but I know a couple experienced (note: experienced; not home theater dorm kids) audiophiles who have and one of them didn't care much for it, while the other liked it but not enough to keep him from upgrading to the SuperFly. For those that know me, I go through speakers like hot cakes. I've owned over 15 speakers in the past 3 years. Just ask my wife... I have driven her nuts, lol. Guess what, the Lores are a KEEPER!! Get some good tubes for the front end and get ready for a treat! |
I am around 80-90 hours now, and I am now running my Lores with Quicksilver Mini Mites. The Decware SE84c was also a great combo but the Quicksilvers suit me better for the music I listen to and the size of the room. What a heavenly combination this is, guys! Wow! A deeeeeeeeep, holographic soundstage and amazing musicality and dynamics. Tone is thick, tight, and musical. This is the perfect match. I am also running a Cary CDP-1 cdp with a Dcca powercord. Cables are all Q-cable pure copper type 2 litz.
I could not imagine someone opting to spend more $. This is best system I've owned, better than $12K + systems I've owned. I honestly do not detect any weaknesses with this setup. It is that good! I have been kicking this hobby around since '99 and it has never been so enjoyable. The Lores get better and better... in every positive change I have made on my front end, the Lores have responded with better clarity, extension, realism, dynamics, you name it!
I have to admit, with respect, thank the good Lord I stayed this course and did not order the competition. The Lores are fantastic!! I will report back when everything is broken in. The Mini Mites only have 25 hours on them so this is system is not even at its potential. |
Sukihock, Eric does prefer to do business over the phone. He's a busy guy and doesn't have a chance to sit in front of the computer often. I have a pair of the OB4.5s. Zman and gpowered, if you thought imaging was scary on the Lores/Katz...you ain't seen (heard) nothin'! What the little OB4.5s lack in bass, they more than make up for in soundstaging, imaging, and that eerie realism. The click of a saxophone's valves and the parting of Jane Monheit's lips before her first note are not uncommon. I honestly don't miss the dynamics of floorstanding speakers at this point. The intimacy of the music is almost addictive. Eric truly is a nice guy, and I believe him to be an honest man in terms of recommendations and salesmanship. We have talked a few times since my purchase about amp upgrades, etc.
I will second, er, third the build quality comments. Eric is truly a professional when it comes to speaker building.
Evan |
Sukihock.
Give Eric a call and lock in a price. Then buy them when you get the cash.
He's a real nice person and I'm sure he'll lock the price in for you. |
I've owned past Zu model. After reading these responses I'm now looking forward to ordering Lore instead of Omen. I just hope I come up with the dough before an increase in $850 price of admission. |
Thanks guys for the helpful info on the Lore's.I will likely order very soon!
Saki -I've emailed Eric a lot and always get a response in 24-48 hours and usually sooner. |
Has anybody had luck with Tekton discussions via email ?
I ask this as I started an email asking for a model recommendation and some tech. questions .
I received an answer asking me what model I owned !?
When I replied that I didn't own any yet , all email stopped !
Does he prefer to discuss via telephone only ?
Thank you |
Incidentally, the Omens are now listed at $1875 on the Zu site and $1499 on musicdirect.com
|
Gooddomino I have the same issue with my Almarro a205a mkII and Zu Omens. WIth the volume all the way down there is what seems like RF noise (sometimes I can hear faint music through the snow), but as soon as I turn it up at all, the noise attenuates to basically an inaudible level. I'd sure like to get rid of it all the same.
|
I agree with Zman... the Lores, like any efficient design, will reveal flaws upstream. On the other hand, it will reward you with postive changes. I would strongly suggest an upgrade(or fix) on the amp when finances permit.
But in regard to the back wall, that shouldn't be an issue really since these are front ported. There is another guy I know that is doing that and I have tried it. Overall, the presentation is basically the same, however, the soundstage is a little more horizontal opposed to realizing the depth capabilities that this speaker can attain. But I suppose that would be true with just about any speaker that is parked up against the back wall. |
I'm pretty sure the hum will show up at 8 db louder.
If the hum got quieter as you turned the volume down I would say there would be no issue. But if it's there with the volume turned down, that's will be an issue. |
I see these are a front ported design and I can only have my speakers out a maximum of 12-18 inches from the wall. Will the Lore's still sound acceptable in this position? My current speakers are Vandersteen 1C's.
My tube amp passes through hum on the Vandy's...90db efficient...that is readily discernible without the volume turned up. Will the 98 db efficient Lore's just magnify this artifact to distracting levels? |
|
Cpapace - Eric did tell me that he had one scheduled, and I believe it was with Stereophile. But you do understand how this industry works, right? If not, hereÂ’s something for you to consider:
Reviews are fun to read and have their value in some cases when the “flavor” or intent of the designer is revealed somewhat accurately, but most reviews are "paid for" and there are other industry strongholds in place to consider. One usually has to spend money on advertising his/her product in a magazine before the mag will even think of reviewing them. So then, if someone is pumping advertising revenue into your account, are you going to trash them and give them a bad review on anything? Take a look at most reviews today and you will see my point. The reviewer will focus on the positives and the general theme is that the product is fair to excellent value but is not going to take down “the giants.”
They have to protect the big guys - it keeps the industry strong and in good order. Your best bet is to listen to end users like us. Forget the reviews. They all should be subjected to toilet reading... IMO. |
Great review, Zman. I have about 70 hours on mine now and they are really opening up now. Very dynamic and resolution is unbelievable. I am still driving mine with the Deware SE84c SET, but my Quicksilver Mini Mites will be here Wed. for a face off. The system is very revealing, thus any changes I make in the chain (speaker cable, IC's, powercords), all seems to make a substantial difference in tone and overall sound. Moreso than any other speaker I've owned and that includes some that are 5-10x the price. That says allot! For any of you considering a well known conventional brand up to $10K, I would seriously look at the Lore!! This is coming from someone that has been down those roads and this purchase has me missing none of the loudspeakers I've ever owned before.
The Lore's strengths are:
Very balanced and seamless design
Superb mid range - vocals sound great!
Good lower end - but more in class of qaulity, rather than quantity although it isn't deficient
Very musical
Great tonal shading - now this one that is a must for me! As with most speakers, this is easier accomplished with a good tube front end
Value - truly off the charts!
The Lore's weaknesses are:
I will have to get back to you on this one... I honestly can't think of anything that I am "missing," other than perhaps to see what these do with more power
|
Well, I've got over 100 hrs and these things are scary.
The depth and invisability of the speaker is hallucinatory.
I was listening last night after mid-night when the AC is as clean as it's going to get and it was spooky to say the least. Imaging was so linear. I've never been that engaged in music before. The bass is so articulate that in my small room (10X13) it is a non issue. Still full and deep, but soooo good. I've emailed Eric and let him know what a gem he has with the Lore's.
A audiophile freind of mine came over and brought his Sony XA5400 CD player and I suddenly realized I need a better front end. My other speakers didn't even come close to these. The cross over less speaker has way more bennifits than I thought possible. |
I'm still bugging Eric about getting a pro review done. Has anyone else emailed or talked to Eric about when one is going to appear? |
Gpowered,
Sounds like the Lores are super sweet! With these speakers, it's all about set up. I to found 4' off the back wall to be the spot with the Omens. I went with the Omen Defs after all. |
About 35 hours in now and the Lores are getting better and better. After experimenting with placement, I have found they sound much better pulled out from the back wall. They are about 3.5 to 4ft from the back wall now and I am getting a tremendously deep, 3D soundstage. This is what I like! The drummer is clearly in the back of the stage, while the bass guitar is 3D off the right a bit, and vocals just in front of the stage but slightly recessed, as it should be, depending on the recording. To my ear, most conventional speakers make everything sound similar. These are front ported so they can sit close to the back wall and still have decent sound, but I think one would lose the holographic magic that a single full range driver can accomplish. Bass and tone are excellent, BUT!!!... I had to get placement just right for that to happen. At first, I couldn't understand why they just didn't sound musical. It was because placement was off. It seems to play all music well so far. Not a whole lot to complain about, with the exception that they are fussy about placement. I would ensure you can set up away from the back wall so for some of you that may lead to some WAF negotiations, lol. |
I'll throw my $.02 out there as I have heard both the Superfly and the Omen Def. The Superfly driver is a little different from that in the Omen line and though the general house sound makes them quite similar, they are a little different. The Superfly excels with dynamics, has a very rich midrange, and is less sensitive to placement than my Omen Defs. The Omen Defs have very good bass when paired with the right amp, and are fantastic with jazz, rock, electronica, and of course vocals and acoustic guitar. The Defs are very dynamic, and very transparent. The imaging and soundstage are great, though it took me a long time tweaking with the placement to get them dialed in.
The Superfly I found to be 5% more engaging especially with jazz and vocals. Each amp, and each upstream component that I change brings
an immediate and palpable change to my system. |
I have Tekton Katz Meows and Zu Omens, never heard the Lore. Both fantastic speakers that I believe give a lot of value for the money. I could easily live with either if I had to.
As far as value, craftsmanship, etc., the Lore and Omen should be very close. A bottom port here, a different driver there, and you'll get a slightly different sound but I believe the differences will be within the "individual preferences" window.
My Katz (8" driver) are more refined than the Omens, and can get eerie with some music, like spooky holographic. The Omens can come close to that, but also allow for a wider variety of music. They play loud much better than the Katz and play rock much better.
How anything I just said applies to the Lore we may never know :) |
You will need a sub for movies regardless. Main speakers can't do the lfe effect like a sub can. Likewise, a sub is near impossible to blend into a stereo if you desire all of advantages that a high efficiency single driver transducer has to offer. The extra driver (added dynamics, bass) could be at the expense of the "magic" that a simple single full range design has to offer. Take a look at all of the best high efficiency speakers out there and I am not sure I can think of any with multiple drivers. Not saying the dual driver is bad, because some prefer the dynamics but it may not be as articulate in the upper bass, midrange, and I can't imagine it disappearing and imaging like a single driver can. But power and dynamics it will do. i don't think bigger is better here, and if it is lfe you desire again a sub is necessary unless it is a powered sub speaker like a Def Tech or something. Best of luck and no matter what, have fun! |
I don't know about the Omen Def's, but I don't think the Omen has any dampening material inside the cabnet.
That's one of the reasons I looked at the Lore.
And the fact that Eric addresses the phase timing at such a low price point.
I also like the front porting over the bottom porting.
I might eat all my words once I heard the Omens, but on paper the lore should be a more refined speaker.
I was really wanting the SuperFly when I started my quest, but at twice the price at holiday pricing it was a no brainer.
I'll give the eye candy to the Zu speakers though.
Gpowered loves his white paint but I chose the basic black because of cost restrictions. There a little disapointing after owning some beautiful rosenut speakers.
It's not Erics fault, I chose what I chose. And I don't want to imply that the fit and finnish is sub par. There done well. Maybe I can just buy a pair of boxes in a wood finnish in the future from Eric and just transfer all the hardware over. Who knows. |
Hi Gpowered, Thanks for the reply. Yes, actually more dynamics (among other things)are what I am hoping for over the standard Omen's not that they need it but if they build it that's what you would want right?
The Omens are very refined also and I wonder what the Lore's can bring to the table compared the the Omens based on their very similar designs. The Defs would seem (at least to me)to bring just a whole lot more out of what the standard Omen offers without changing the sound. I think of it as "twice the Omen".
But, I will give Tekton a call tomorrow before I order the Def's just to see, as the other option is...Lore's & a sub.
( Sub for Movies)
Thanks again! |
Telescope - if you are looing for big dynamics then perhaps the Def is the way to go with 2 drivers. But I am willing to bet the Lore is going to be a more refined speaker. Hope you are getting a nice deal though because twice the money is quite much for just one additonal driver. The driver's are worth $100 each tops. Just a thought. |
Thank for the reply's! I had my Omens imaging like crazy, and think that is more a matter of "fine tuning" setup. I will think about the Lore's, but think the Omen Defs are the way to go for me.
I have a buddy with the Super Fly's, and he is not 100% sure the SF's are much if any better than the Omens. But we have
never A/B'd them here, but he did listen to both at RMAF
and as he put it, the Omens were the Bell of the Ball.
Hard to say!? It is a great price on the Lore's though so
we'll see. |
I've read from a SuperFly owner that the SF doesn't image as pin point as he would like.
That being said, you may have to go higher in the Zu line to match the excellence of the Lore.
And at an insane price point ($850).
I've heard some crazy expensive speakers that don't come close to this starter priced speaker.
I'm amazed at what I'm hearing.
I would also like to state that this isn't tunnel vision talking. |
Eric addressed some of the things that from what I heard from the majority that have Zu, you may have to step up to SuperFly to get. He addressed phase issues and better cabinet dampening. He told me he didn't leave any stones unturned, and now that I have them and am listening... I agree it is fact. These are excellent. You shouldn't need a sub with any of these for music. In fact, you may lose the accuracy and beautiful tone of the excellent Eminence driver in either design. Of course for HT I could understand you needing some rumble... |
Zman and Gpowered,
Please post any further thoughts when you can. I'm trying to get a handle on how they may sound. I owned (just sold) Omens and loved them so much I am ordering a pair of Omen Defs tomorrow, but even before I sold the Omens, I was thinking on just adding a sub (mainly for HT) and being done.
So, I wonder about the Lores since they are on sale, and assume they will be more similar than not to to regular Omens.
I'll probably stick with the Omen Defs as I think they will be just outstanding, but wonder about the Lores and a sub!? |
My honest initial thoughts after 15+ hours are very favorable. This a very balanced speaker with a deep soundstage. Imaging is among the best I have heard - very tightly focused. Excellent dynamics and adequate bass. The system responded better to Type 2 Litz copper IC's opposed to silver, but it may be a better design with the copper IC 's. I am getting a very refined presentation that I hadn't experienced anywhere near this price before. One thing apparent is at 98db efficient, I can hear everything else in the system as well. Finally, we have a transducer that lives up to the hype at a real world price. This one just may get me off the merry-go-around. More to come... |
One of my new Lores arrived today. The other will be here in the morning. I ordered them in satin white and they look stunning. Very "clean" look to them. Quality is way up there for the price. I am driving mine with a Decware SE84 for now. Possibly worth noting, I had Eric wire mine up with Van Den Hul C12, 12awg internal wire. Not that it will make that much of a sonic difference but Eric is great about accomadating so I figured why not wire it up with something to my liking. He used a OFC 18awg copper standard which I am sure is fine. I will report on the sound as soon as I get some hours but I am exepting great things.
I chose the Lore over the Omen because of the horirble Zu measurements out there that scared me (no offense to Zu owner and I have not heard them for the record), and I was partial to Eric's design because he addressed phase and cabinet dampening at the this price point. |
I'm not sure there broke in yet. I have an impression that traveling from Utah to Florida in a cardboard box surrounded by styrofoam builds a static charge that dissapates quickly.
I am using a stereophile burn in disc that will speed up the break in period.
I've tilted the speakers back about 2 deg. and have them towed in about 5 deg. My golden triangle is a little over 6 feet.
The treble is good. Not to glary or to rolled off. But I'm sure the caps that are used on the tweeters will take time to burn in.
I tilted the speaker back to compensate for the tweeter being below the driver. It worked out great.
I do not have grills.
The finnish is Satin Black. It's not a pretty speaker but the fit and finnish as been stated before is top notch.
I'm using an Almarro A318B amp with an Emotiva ERC-1 Cd player w/MAC UltraSilver+ IC's.
My speaker cables are JW Audio Cryo Nova.
My power cords are MAC HC Soundpipes.
It's not exotic, but it sounds great in a fully treated room. |
Zman - I went through pretty much the same thing with my Tekton Katz Meows last summer, although it was over the course of days and not hours. I'm currently putting the finishing touches on my new Omens that have maybe 100 - 150 hours on them as I write this. Both great speakers for the asking price no doubt.
Have you heard other Full Range Single Drivers before? The Katz were the first for me and I'm sold, at least for a while.
What amp are you running the Lores with? I have a 2A3 single ended jobbie that works well with both the Tekton and Zu. |
Glad to hear about your favorable first impression of the Lore. Sounds like they broke in quite fast. Happy to hear about the good bass response. A 10 inch drive and ported cabinet of that size should do bass well and it sounds like it does!How's that treble with the bottom mounted tweeter? Are they placement fussy? What color did you go for? How's the fit and finish? I'd likely get mine with grilles due to kids....did you get the grilles? |
Ok, heres a short summary of my first impessions of the Lore's.
I will give a better review after break in.
Right out of the box they were very dark and compressed sounding. So I put some heavy hitting music (Tool) on and called a freind of mine to tell him how I think I made a mistake.
I was on the phone for about an hour and my friend assured me that new speakers need burn in.
In my mind, I couldn't see the speaker changing THAT much.
My previous speakers were Monitor Audio RS6's. That were very open and ballanced.
So I went back into my music room and set in the sweet spot and the differance was night and day.
So for the rest of the afternoon I was measuring the placement and laser aliegning the tow-in and yada yada.
After everything was perfect I sat down and listened to many CD's from Jazz to Rock to solo piano.
The soundstage was very wide and deep. The imaging was very pin point. They imaged much better than my RS6's.
The Lores disappeared like no other speaker I've heard.
The tonal ballance was beautiful. The Lores handled everything I threw at them and done it right.
They were delicate when they needed to be, and they were forceful and aggressive when called upon.
The bass is very full with out being obtrusive.
The male vocals never went into the bass department. That's a very good thing.
Well, thats all for now. I'm more than just a little stoked about these speakers. Eric's not getting them back.
Have a great day.
John |
