Socrates7 - I spoke to Eric about this, and it is not a replacement for the Lore. It is simply a new model that is set to bridge the gap between Mini Lore and Lore. He had received many requests about a less expensive, full size Lore model. So I wouldn't expect the Lore to ever sell under a grand again unless it is B stock. Truth be told, all of these are going to be competition killers in at the price.
I am listening to my pendragons now fully broken in and they are simply the best speaker I have ever heard, especially with the live recordings (I know I have said this allot). The upgraditis has completely been squashed, though I owe that more to my walk with the Lord, but still... the Pens are a big time speaker no doubt. Expect great things from Eric the guy was the first in about 15 speakers I had to finally satisfy ... I can now only ask... where am I to go from here ?? Surely spending more wouldn't make any sense at all.
I say buy the one you can afford and don't look back... |
Gpowered
What else did he say about the new model compared to the Lore , sound wise , drivers, etc... |
He said it is absolutely "stupid good" for the money, but Lore is still Supreme. However, as a guy that moved from the $1K Lore to $2,500 Pendragon, I would say that these two models are going to be extremely close... based on the fact that atleast in principle, Lore and P'dragon are also similar. The fact is, this guy builds world class stuff for the money, period!
The cost difference is likely the Vifa vs. Audax tweeter. The Audax tweeters are more expensive. But still some may prefer the Vifa tweeter. If you do a search on Eminence, you should be able to basically figure out the driver he's using...
The woofer in the Pendragon looks like an Eminence Legend BP-02, although Eric may be using a different spec driver than what we would buy off the shelf. And with that in mind, the driver in Oriel "looks like" one of the Delta series drivers. The point to remember with these two designs (Lore v Oriel), but NOT speaking for Eric here... is that the Lore driver has a whizzer and therefore it is going to hand off to the tweeter higher up (around 3Khz I believe), where as with the Oriel, I would assume that it is going to hand off to the tweeter quite a bit lower than that. Still, Eric is all about simpliciy so I would assume that in both of the these, execution is well done. Hope this helps... |
My Lores arrived today. These are my second pair. With 95% of the music I listen to the Lores were fantastic. I got greedy and wanted the extra 5% so I upgraded to the Pendragons. To make a long story short, the Pendragons didn't work out for me. I tried everything I could think of but I just couldn't get them to sound right. They were overpowering the room and the bass was a little muddy. I think some vintage amps prefer an 8 ohm load as opposed to the Pendragons 4 ohm load. I was thinking of trying a more modern tube amp, but I am committed to the Scott and I still had the room to deal with and I didn't want to spend any more money. I sure with a more modern amp and an appropriate size room the Pendragons would sound excellent. I just finished listening to Joni Mitchell's "Don Juan's Reckless Daughter" and it never sounded better. I think the Lores are a perfect match for my room and amp. All is well again. I learned a very expensive lesson. The Lore is one hell of a speaker. |
Does anyone know how much of an upcharge there is for veneers ? |
Hey friends iv had the Pendragons for a little over 1 month and this is coming from a guy who loves his music .... Truck hold 6 12" inch eve full range speakers with bema speaker in front and back and rear so imagine the sound coming out from a alpha sonic 2000 watt amp with 2 12"inch solobaric...extreme dosnt matter what kind if music you prefer one thing about a good set of speakers is that it will perform no matter weather music home theater .... Mind you I have my pendragons hooked up different then most ... Some would say crazy but remember my truck system and those massive speakers ... Now I have a pioneer sc-57 which has a class D pioneer based of ICE .... Being high effecient this class d not to mention a 192k 32bit Dac it has more then enough power to drive these speakers and I can't go all the way up on the dial this concludes the point im trying to make.... Huge soundstage .... Tight deep base and although ohms are different between car and home stereo I promise you anyone who purchase these speakers will no doubt realize it was the best choice you may have made year to date.... Enjoy |
I'm glad you're enjoying them. If only I had a bigger room. Oh well. Looks like my loss was your gain. My Lores arrived yesterday and I couldn't be happier. Everything is right again. |
Hi all ! Evank... I think the veneer is $250 or $300 upcharge . Rsfphil....That 4 ohm load on the Pendragons is what steered me to the Lores . My small tube amp doesnt like low ohms . These Lores are just fantastic . |
I am running Pendragons with a 11 watt Xindak amp and it is plenty of power. I am getting powerful, tight bass with beautiful tonality and very articulate upper bass. I wouldn't be inclinded to think a 4ohm load is big deal as long as it is linear. Capellaudio bought those Pens and described his room as being small... I would conclude that would be the issue. The Pendragons need more than just 10x12 or so room to play or they will overwhelm the room. It sounds like they were a bad match with that Scott amp as well... but lets not be quick to such a conclusion that it is a 4ohm problem... because as I said my little chinese amp has no problem whatsoever. Since I replaced the tubes, I am getting crystal clear beautiful sound that transcends the Lore by a fairly wide margin (as it should re the price difference), and with that I am off the upgrade train finally! That is not to say that the Lores don't sound similar.. as they are great and surely do.. but the Pens recreate the live event better as they have a much thicker, and more powerful bottom and play more open due to the design with the triple tweeter array.
This gentleman clearly downgraded because in his room, simply less is more. |
Hi GPowered,
I think your point is worth emphasizing as most people on these boards simply read good or bad, but one big key is matching speaker with room! The Lores are amazing in a small room at nearfield, but I am sure the Pendragons, which are very similar to my Omen Defs, would be much better suited in a larger room. Not that the Lores are bad in a large room, but just not as large of a soundstage, less dynamics, and less bass than the larger speakers. Maybe one day I will get to compare the Pendragons to the Omen Defs. That would be a better comparison, and my guess is that I would prefer the tweeter in the Pendragons over the OD's. |
Good points made above regarding matching speakers to the room. I had an epiphany of sorts last year when I dropped the small Katz Meows in my 12' x 13' room. I had been fighting trying to get good sound in here for several years with Maggie's, Martin Logan's and Klipschorns, all good speakers but never sounded right. The Katz with the 8" main really opened my eyes because as soon as they started to play I realized my main problem was speakers that were too big for the room. I've since had Zu Omens and now Lores and I fight no more. |
Not sizing the speaker to the room is one of the most common mistakes made in audio. |
Rsfphil well u know what they say bigger isn't always better in some cases but in mine Bigger is definently better ..... Those panels on your listening room ruined the experience not to mention the amp thats older then me and Gpowered put together ... Lol .... I mean Scott is legendary but these speakers pack alot more then what your Scott amp can produce.... But that's how it is in the audio world ..... Btw I'm happy you got the Lores back rsfphil enjoy .... |
8ohm Pendragon? Yes.
I talked with Eric last week. Looks like enough folks were interested that he's taking a long, serious look at rejiggering the Pendragon to support an 8ohm variant. Will need different drivers, of course, but Eric said he knew where he wanted to go with it. 98db @ 8 ohms minimum. Might be a whole different thing, no? |
Just hooked up my Lores today. I do notice a change in soundstage when listening while standing and with the top driver at ear level. What are you guys doing to raise this speaker up? I listen alot just standing around. I don't want to put them on a pedestal. Does Eric have a longer spike for the front spike holes? |
Gooddomino - I raise the front of the speaker slightly by screwing the front spikes out. I screw a thin nut to the threads all the way, then screw the spike into the speaker (fronts 2 spikes).
I don't listen while standing pretty much ever.
What did you do with any other speaker you've had? |
I have a larger spike for Pendragons (they come with taller spikes). Call him and I am sure he'll take care of you. |
Sebrof,
My current speakers are the overacheiving Vandersteen 1c's.They use the nut and screw method to provide tilt back....don't know why I didn't think in that direction, glad you did. Thanks Gpowered for the other tilt option.
The Lores seem to change sound character more than the 1c with a change in vertical listening position. Tilt back should help.
As an aside, I really like the sound of these speakers. The midrange is detailed yet non fatigueing. A gem of a speaker and worth the high praise I've seen. |
Hi all ! Great idea guys as I like to stand sometimes and listen , tilting them a bit might be the ticket . I agree these things just nuts . Everyone that has heard mine just sit there and shake their heads , esp when I tell them they are only getting 4wpc , max . |
Hey guys,
Any Updates out there from Pendragon owners? I auditioned a pair locally last night and really enjoyed them. It is hard to compare them directly to my Omen Defs in a different room with a different set up, but overall they did sound great. Also what kind of amps are you guys running with your Pendragons?
Thanks,
Morgan |
Morganc - I have the 11 watt class A Xindak MT-01. With good tubes it is a perfect match in my mid-sized room. I also have a 200 watt Marsh A400s - great for rocking out and wanting some incredible dynamics and a powerful low end, but the tube amp is most certainly a better match in terms of tone and musicality... when the pens are set up right (equalateral triangle off the back wall with a nice wide stance), to me they are one of the best sounds I've ever experienced... |
Capellaudio -- I just read through this entire thread and I see you got the Pendragons but I wanted you to know that I heard the GoldenEar Tech speakers (Triton IIs) in both HT and 2-channel setups and I thought they were better suited for HT.
In the HT setup, they were driven by an Integra receiver and the room was huge (can't even begin to estimate the volume). In the 2-channel setup, they were in a treated room, maybe 16x12, powered by an all-McIntosh front-end, and I have to say, while the bass was good, the top-end seemed too rolled off for my tastes. Sandy Gross was there at the 2-channel demo and I'd think he'd have had a little bit to say about the set-up and the placement of the speakers, if not the gear used.
I have heard them three times and I don't get all the rave professional reviews they have received. This is my opinion only, or course, so here's hoping you are finding success with the Pendragons.
Cwazz, on the other hand, if you are looking for bass, the Triton IIs might be what you are looking for. While a step-up in price, they deliver very good base at their pricepoint.
After several months of suggestions from other members, it doesn't seem as if you have tried to implement any of their suggestions so maybe changing up speakers is what you need to do. Personally I think your room itself needs to be addressed first, but see if you can at least auditon a pair of Triton IIs. |
...ideot! Honestly, this is the funniest post in the whole thread. While I don't know if Zmanastronomy made a typo or if he was having a bit of fun but when I read that, I could hear some Frenchman verbalizing this in accented English. Audiovile, too bad you didn't get the joke. |
just posted 2 videos on YouTube for my modest system built around tekton
Search them on you tube Here are the 2 titles:
Primaluna 2 with tekton lore
Audiophile vinyl,tube and tekton lore |
Analoguefan it sounds great, can you post somethin with some deep bass ? No techno or stuff like that. |
Hi Guys.....I spoke with Eric today and yes there is an 8 Ohm Pendragon coming out soon in the next week or so. It obviously makes pairing with a SET amp a little more friendly. I also laid down my cash and will soon have a pair in my living room:). |
Evans,
Thank you. I will try to post some of mr Mingus jazz work this weekend |
Hi everyone,
I've got a few questions with respect to the M-Lore. I am leaning towards buying this speaker sometime in 2012 as part of my first step into high efficiency speakers mated to a tube amp. Questions:
1. My room is about 13 x 11 - on the small side. Is the M-Lore too large? I worry because when I tried a pair of Monitor Audio RX2, with the 8" woofer and rear port, it overloaded the room. I'm sure the front ports on the Tekton will help with this but I'm still a little worried.
2. Think I read this info somewhere but I can't find it now. Please describe the crossover (or lack thereof). I believe it is just a cap in front of the tweeter with the woofer running full range. Is this right, and what frequencies does each driver handle?
3. I will consider tube amps (new or used) in the range of $1,500. Integrateds with four inputs and a volume control are preferred. SET or push-pull? I listen to mostly rock music. I'd like to buy American, European, or Japanese, but might consider some of the more respected Chinese brands. Any suggestions? Brands that have caught my eye so far are: Rogue, Almarro, Decware, Pure Sound, and Primaluna (latter two are made in China I believe). I assume the likes of ARC, Unison, and Mastersound are out of my price range. Thanks! |
Analogue fan I will be looking forward to it |
Fusion - I have Lores in a 12 x 13' room and they do not overload. I also have a pair of Tekton Katz Meow (8" main driver)and they play great in here, too. I don't think you'll have any problems with the M-Lores being too big. FWIW - I've had Maggies, Logans, and KHorns in here. They were all too big, although I didn't realize it until I started playing smaller speakers.
I don't know about the M-Lore, but the Lore has a crossover. I thought it was just a cap before the tweeter until yesterday when I looked inside. A couple of coils, a few resistors and a few caps looks like a crossover to me. I don't know the crossover points.
I've had a 2A3 SET amp that I built in my rig for the past couple of years or so and loved it. The other day I got a Manley Stingray for just under your budget and like it a lot with the Lores. It's got the detail of the SET but with balls. I like it a lot better (for now, anyway). The Stingray uses Parallel Push Pull EL84s. I can recommend the Manley, but there are many choices for $1500. |
Fusion: Go for a Decware or a Manley. I had a mini Torii from Decware with the Lores and it was an amazing combination in my bedroom which is about the size of your room. Although for rock you may want want to check out one of the Decware amps with a few more watts.
If you have questions about the speakers, I would call the owner and ask him. Tell him your preferences and the size of your room and he can tell you what would be the best speaker for you. |
Fusion, you can also look at Niteshade Audio for amps in your price range. |
Sebrof.
It's interesting that you have seen a cross-over in the Lore. From all indications, the Lore is supposed to be a full range with a high pass capacitor in the tweeter.
I never looked inside the one I had, but what you're discribing is a cross-over. |
Anybody order or has received a pair of the Oriel 10 ? I talked to Eric and explained that I use digital sources via a DAC and through a Dared tube pre and pair of Dared tube mono blocks (18wpc). I am fairly eclectic with my music and listen to everything from Celtic to dubstep / Techno. I was / am a bit afraid of trusting a full range speaker to handle the differet music types but Eric assures me the Oriel can handle it all.
Thoughts ? |
Yeah Zman, that's kind of disappointing that the speaker has a crossover. I was kind of jazzed to try one without, knowing how many people feel that crossovers muck up the sound.
Thanks for the tube amp recommendations. The Stingray looks sweet but I think it comes without a remote. I tend to make small volume adjustments while listening so not having this would be a bit of an inconvenience. Still, I will consider it as sound and build quality trump convenience. The Niteshade stuff looks fantastic. Never heard of this company before but they are definitely an option as well. It looks like they will build basically any amp you want, and what they've done in the past looks first rate. |
Guys - I wouldn't be concerned about the cross-over. Eric uses a very simple approach, and the Lore is crossed over very high (around 3khz). Not sure about he M-lore but I think I rememer Eric telling me it is similar. Lets not get trapped into that type of thinking - rather it is all of the parts of the system that make up the whole. Eric's aptitude is in the execution of these things. Those of us that own his products can attest to that. There are many x-overless speakers that don't sound anywhere near as good.
No speaker I have owned can touch the Pendragon from a total package standpoint, and for those that just joined this thread, that includes:
Greybeard Audio KB ($9.5K and all Scan Speak)
Dynaudio Focus 220 II, Confidence C1 monitors, and A70's
Von Schweikert Audio VR-4 Jr Mk II
Quad ESL 989 (although these excel in mid range)
Martin Logan Ascent
PSB Synchrony One, and Stratus Gold I's
Silverline SR12
Rega RS7
The Tektons are phenominal speakers - it is a giant blessing to not have to be chasing the speaker train anymore like I had been since '08 ;) In addition to that, I never get tired of listening to the Pens... yet every other speaker I owned did not have that lasting affect. Go figure... |
I'm looking to spend about $1000 on floor standing speakers, which will be paired with a Peachtree Nova, playing digital music as well as using a turntable. Would either of these speakers match well with the Nova?
Thanks! |
Yes, either speaker would pair well with the Nova. Zu paired with Peachtree for their Holiday sales in 2010 actually, and for the price and flexibility, it would get you started on a very nice system with either speaker. Though, neither of these commonly show up used. However you can find Zu specials on EBay and the Tektons are right at $1000 new. |
I have read the thread, and I am trying to get a handle on the sound. I like a live sound, but not with a thinness like single driver speakers seem to do. Does the Lore have some weight to the sound in the all important male vocal range? My room will be about 15 x 19...
Thanks! |
Singleguy: yes, both the Zu and the Lore excel in the human vocal range. That is where they are at their best at least in my set-up. |
Singleguy - I agree with Morganc. In my smaller (12' x 13') room I need to be very careful with placement of both Omen and Lore to avoid too much bass. I think you would be surprised at the 10" driver they both use. Big enough for a big sound, but still provides a lot of what a single driver speaker delivers. I don't find the Lores thin at all (nor the Omens which I no longer own). |
Thanks Morganc and Sebrof - that is definitely reassuring. My room size will work too then I assume? To let you know where I am coming from, I have 2 sets of Tannoy HPD-385A drivers in 2 different cabinets (Arden, homebuilt). I'll keep one set and sell the other to fund the Lores...
I have 5 different amplifiers, including pure Class A solid state, 2 tripath-based amps, 300B, and conventional A/B solid state. I know that I will be able to get a good match with at least one of them, as all sound very good with the Tannoys.
Thanks for the input and information! |
Check this out guys!! http://parttimeaudiophile.com/ |
You will have to look under the speaker category. Sounds yummy |
cant speak for the omens , but the lores are not a single driver speaker singleguy. just to set the record straight. |
Now even a new model on the website calles the Lore S . I wish he would maybe join the discussion and give us news about the newer models |
I talked to Eric yesterday about the new options, trying to sort out a recommendation for my brother. He said the Lore-S uses Seas drivers, a step above the Lore in refinement. There's a rub, however. As the Eminence in the base Lore is designed as a pro-audio driver, Eric said it has more punch than the driver in the Lore-S. The Seas driver, on the other hand, will have more of a regular hi-fi sound. The Lore-S driver is also 8" as opposed to the Lore's 10", and the cabinet is thus a little narrower. |
And I call the next speaker to be a a Seas based Pendragon! No offical word of it but I would assume that's next on the radar. As for me, I really like the "live" music sound of the Pro drivers. It's hard to go back to "toy" audio after getting used to it... but it's all good. ;o) |
Got my 8-ohm Pendragons last week, first of this type off the line.
I can't post pics in the thread, so you'll have to hit my blog to be able to see what I'm seeing right now: parttimeaudiophile.com or wp.me/p1ae3a-oQ.
I had completely forgotten what listening to full range speakers is like! |
Thanks for posting. Yes we have beem following your blog. So what do you think so far. My Pendragons broke in fast because this time I used a 200 watt ss amp to do the job. So are you getting strong dynamics and bass with 3 watts? The 4 ohm variant needs about 10 I would say. Congrats and welcomes. They are a unique offering that's for sure. Are you thinking giant killer???? |
