I have the DWs on order and look forward to listening to them. Anyone try to incorporate outriggers to provide better stabilization/aesthetics? Something like what SF has on their new Nova’s would be really cool. Maybe Sean could cook up something more cost effective... https://www.sonusfaber.com/en/products/olympica-nova-iii/ |
cat_doorman
I looked at your room drawings and my room is almost identical (missing side wall). I placed a REL t5i to the outboard side of right speaker (facing) and it solved my bass issues. I’ve owned the Schiit Saga preamp and it was a great piece for $350.00, but I encourage you to read Herb Reichert and Terry London’s review of the MicroZOTL mz2 preamp. Teamed with the Pass XA-25, I don’t think you can beat it for the money. I’ll bet this preamp would be killer with your Prima Luna.
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I’m still on the fence about getting a sub. I’ve heard new low end detail in tracks I thought I knew well with the DW but I’ve also changed a lot of other gear recently. I briefly put my old speakers back in and could now hear the same elements but they manifest differently. It almost was too much bass because I’d grown used to the DW. I didn’t leave them set up for long but mostly because I only half ass set them up without moving the DW. I have them set farther apart than my other speakers, but I like a wide presentation. I’ve also been thinking of getting a Class A SS amp as a contrast to my current tube amp and give myself options. Pass XA25 and First Watt F7 are high on the list.
@terjea17 tube amps have different taps based on the approximate speaker impedance in order to get the proper amperage from the output transformers. Solid state amps don’t need this.
You might ask Zu about those caps to make sure they’re the proper size to crossover properly. I got the clarity cap upgrade when I ordered the speakers and haven’t had any complaints in the upper registers and I’m someone that usually finds violins screechy.
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I bought 2 sets of GAIA feet and felt like it tightened up the bass nicely. My Dirty Weekend speakers (hickory👍) have the drivers out of a set of MK lV Druids. I’ve added one REL t5i sub and it has done a nice job of compensating for a bad room. I also added a Pass XA-25 and a MicroZOTL mz2 upstream. Couldn’t be happier with the result. Sean and Garrett are very good about answering questions you might have... Don’t think you’ll send them back!
Good Luck!
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Hi! Also looking for the same as OP, tips to make my week-old Zu Omen DW mkII shine. :) So happy I found this thread, some really good tips here already! I followed Whoopycats tip on toe-in, aiming just outside my shoulders. Floor gap is at 10mm/0,3", on rubber feet. I am quite happy with the sound already, but I definitely need to do some tuning until I'm satisfied. Specifically, I feel that I need to somehow tame the treble a bit.. It's much to sharp for my ears, there's one frequency that is very raspy. My DW's have "CMR6-060: 1uF 630Vdc Claritycap CMR" which is a "bit better than the ones in Zu's own upgrade kit" according to the seller. I don't know if this is true.. One questions on this thread: -What are "ohm taps"? I see the DW's are specified at 12ohm, my amp is 8ohm. (Anthem MRX720) My setup is in the living room, so unfortunately, not much I can do with positioning. I know it's far from optimal. But any advice on room correction, or speaker height, physical adjustments, etc, are very welcome and appreciated!! Some pictures and graphs here: https://imgur.com/a/Wnkwxrv |
Druid V has a much more quieter cabinet as well as the larger 16 ohm driver. This gives you better tonal resolution with much better attack and more resolving bass. With the Radian tweeter you also get much more refinement in the high treble. Whereas Omen DW sounds warmer and fuller.
This is a story for another thread, but the downside is that IMO Druid is much pickier about the amp in order to fully open up and go from good to great. I needed the loading resistors to get my solid state amps to drive them well, the Omens didn't really need them. So while Druid is definitely a step up, it was not without some frustration for me in terms of setup and system matching whereas Omen DW sounded pretty great to me right out of the box.
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whoopycat - What refinements did you get moving up to the Druids? Not that I’m looking to upgrade right away. (It’s only been a few weeks.) I’m just curious how the rest of the line compares.
For me I think the real test will be in a few months after I’ve fully run in and acclimated to the DW. I wonder what I’ll think when I try my 20yo Dynaudios again. |
I've had mind for a while. They aren't that fussy about placement, but I needed the back of the cabinets about 1 1/2 feet from the wall (my wall is made out of concrete) to get optimal bass without muddying the midrange.
Despite the heavy run-in received in the factory, they will still need 50-100 hours before their character stopped changing.
Once you get them right, just enjoy ! I don't find them lacking in bass in the least. In fact, it may boom in smaller rooms.
Your last tweak is either trying the snubbing resistors, or a capacitor upgrade for the high pass to the tweeter (you can also ask for them to be upgraded in the factory, or buy their upgrade kit which can be user installed). |
Glad you like 'em. I'm a big fan of the rustic hickory finish. I had DW's in rustic and my Druids are also in rustic hickory with a light rub to make the wood grain pop just a little bit more. |
Mine are Rustic Hickory, too. I just couldn't justify spending $150-400 extra for a special paint job on $1,000 speakers. I did spring for the upgraded capacitor though.If I ever move up the line I might look at a premium finish, even the hickory are damn nice to look at. I haven't had the speakers 3 days or finished tweaking the setup, and I'm already thinking about the upgrade path. Shameless.
Looks like you found your weak link. I hadn't changed any gear in years until recently and I've noticed it does change the way you listen. There's the old debate about listening to gear versus listening to music, but sometimes listening to gear makes you hear the music again. I've been playing a lot of stuff I hadn't heard in years. And since I only recently started streaming there is an enormous back catalog of stuff I always wanted to listen to but never got around to buying. Priorities.
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I'm not sure gear "matters" but it's always cool to see what others are using. It sounds like your enjoying yourself and isn't that what all of this is about?
I just took possession of a refurbished Dual 1219 and wow has that transformed the Dirty Weekends. Well it hasn't transformed them as much as it's allowed them to show me what they're all about. I'm finally in love.
I guess I didn't realize how much my AT LP120 was holding them back. I haven't enjoying listening to records this much since getting back into it seven years ago. The grin hasn't left my face since unboxing the turntable yesterday.
Since you listed your gear, here's mine:
Anthem MRX 520
Dual 1219 with Ortofon OM10
Schiit Mani
Sony SCD-CE595
Cables are Blue Jean and a hodgepodge of Acoustic Research & Monster Cable from decades ago.
Oh and of course the Zu Omen Dirty Weekend in Rustic Hickory |
So the tip that nobody gave me was don’t be a dumbass and leave your amp on the 4 ohm taps. I can now confirm that the 8 ohm taps definitely sound better. I’ll probably listen for a bit before trying the 16 ohm taps. Nominal spec is 12 ohm but characteristic is 14 ohm according to the chart Zu has with some of their snubbing resistors. Still a tube noob so I’m not used to so many choices.
The carpet spikes are LONG. Fully inserted the spike protrudes about 1-1/2”. So I’ve got plenty of clearance under. Initial bass response is fine. I know intellectually that I’m missing that little last bit of extension that I had before and it would probably show up on a test sweep but why would I listen to test tones already. I have some spare shelves for those IKEA CD racks that were recently discontinued. I bet sliding one under each finger port would provide the opposite extreme for comparison. But not yet. Leonard Cohen is currently telling me I’m in the right ball park as is. I heard a more hiss as a Ben Folds Five track trailed off than I’m used to, but the decibel meter tells me I’ve turned the volume up about 10dB more than usual without noticing. Coincidentally the DW are about 10dB more efficient than my Dynaudio Audience 82 are. These are easy to play loud. Good thing I’m in a house and not an apartment. I’m missing the deepest bass a little with Meshell Ndegeocello but not enough to stop the volume from creeping up again. Got swept up in a Saint Saëns cello concerto. I had a feeling cello would shine on the Zu. I don’t need a speaker to shake the earth or rattle the windows but you can’t roll off too early and miss the upright bass in a small jazz ensemble either. This wasn’t initially intended to be a play by play of my first listening session. There’s some Stanley Clarke, Propellerheads, Johnny Cash, Iggy Pop, Gillian Welch, Dizzy Gillespie, Police, Portishead and it’s going to be a long night. I should pour a drink and put down my phone. I think I’m getting an idea what people mean by Zu sound. "I think this is the beginning of a beautiful friendship."
If it matters:
Primaluna DP HP
Schiit Saga+ (meant to be temporary, but I like)
Oppo BDP-105
Bluesound Node 2i
Cables are some Cullen and some Zu.
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Thanks whoopycat, that's great information. I'll play with my Anthem's tone controls and maybe even set up some custom ARC curves.
I've looked at the Loki more than once, so that's also an interesting idea. I'd honestly rather not add a sub so you've given me some food for thought. |
One more note about deep bass on the DW. Zu bass in general is pretty tight and resolving, more so than most speakers, and yes, sometimes the speakers can sound a bit thin and/or lean on rock. However IMO Zu's respond very well to EQ. Before investing in subs give your amp's tone controls a try, or think about something like a Schiit Loki. I use bass EQ with my Zu's and I've never wished for a sub. |
Sounds like you're going into it with the right attitude. I'm like you, I want avoid obvious mistakes but that's such a subjective thing. One person's mistake is another's epiphany.
Once I got over my initial concerns about low end extension, I started noticing the detail in the mid and upper mid range that I hadn't had with my AEs. To me, that's a better foundation to build off than what I had before.
I'd demoed B&W 685s2; Paradigm Monitor 9v7; and Golden Ear Aon 3 against my Acoustic Energy Aegis 3 and while all were better performing to some degree, none of them impressed me enough to consider them worthwhile upgrades for the cost.
I don't think the DWs are a revelation or anything but I like them compared to all those speakers above and, to my tastes, their aesthetic is worlds better. |
I don’t consider myself a bass head, I just know over time I must have become accustomed to speakers with decent low end extension, no matter the genre. I had some large stand mounts for years long ago that rolled off around 50Hz. They were great. My decision to go to full range floorstanders had nothing to do with blowing a woofer with over exuberant volume.
No point in drawing conclusions early. That’s the whole point of the 60 day trial. I think my long term plan may involve some subs in a 2nd system. There are a lot of speakers I want to try over the next few years that have limited low end. I’ll have to figure that out when I get to it.
All the advice is appreciated. I’m the kind of person that prefers to learn from other people’s mistakes rather than my own. Doesn’t always work out that way. Sounds like there will be plenty of opportunities for both. |
Deep bass isn't really the DWs strongest attribute. I think they start to roll off somewhere around 40Hz? I don't have my own measurements in front of me but that's what I recall.
You do have some ability to control bass response by changing how the bottom finger ports interact with your floors. Plus Zu has a template for using cardboard as gap fillers to further tune those frequencies. I haven't tried that yet but it's on my agenda.
I took possession of a mine in late January and immediately noticed that they didn't go as low as my previous Acoustic Energy Aegis speakers. At first I was disappointed but the Zu guys were great about offering advice.
My room is paneled and placement ended up being a real challenge. Eventually I ended up finding a place where I can live with them until I get around to acoustically treating the room.
If you really like like bass in your music, you might find yourself wanting to add subs to your setup. I'm pondering that myself. Right now it really depends on the recording. Hard rock /metal feels thinner than I'm used to. But vocal-centric stuff and singer/songwriter tunes sound so good that I'm not sure there's a one size fits all approach.
I might have to have multiple setups with and without subs engaged to find what I want... there's lots to consider and that's a lot of the fun.
Enjoy your DWs, they are simple gorgeous to behold... excellent craftsmanship on the materials. You have 60 days to live with them, use it before making up your mind. |
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Damn. They sold out in less than a day. That’s crazy. Glad I didn’t hesitate. Thanks for the breakdown, whoopycat. Sounds like messing with the floor gap makes the most difference. The bass response is the big unknown for me. The speakers I’ve had for years claim extension to 26Hz. It’s only the last few years that I’ve put them in a room big enough to take the foam plugs out of the ports and let them breathe. I hope the Zu get close enough that a lack of bass doesn’t distract from the areas where they’re supposed to shine. I guess I’ll find out soon enough. How good of a sub do you need to keep up with a Zu? |
Awesome we have whoopycat helping cat_doorman! Congrats on your new speakers doorman and excellent advice Matt.
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Congrats. DW's are relatively easy to setup but there are some things you can do to dial them in.
1. Floor gap: Zu recommends a quarter inch (CD jewel case width), I like to go larger, about 5/8" for a fuller bass sound. Start with Zu's guideline and experiment if you are not happy with the bass.
2. I don't find Zu's to be that sensitive to distance from walls in my room. Yours may be different.
3. Toe in: the more toe in, the more focused images and tone density you get. But less toe in gives a wider stereo spread and will reduce any potential glare (for example a lot of hard surfaces in your room). I use a slight toe in so that they fire just to the outside of my shoulders.
4. You can also tilt them up slightly if you feel you aren't getting enough treble. I don't do this.
5. Crank 'em up! |
