You are there vs. They are there


So what is the difference?  Do I have it right?

You are there: the vocal and soundstage starts at the plane of the speakers

                         and recess backward behind the speakers plane.

They are there: The soundstage is forward into the room with the vocal

                          reproduction in your room.

 

Which would you prefer?

andy2

Phasing may have to do with it.

What if you made a speaker that was out of phase with itself?

I’ve never heard speakers that image like my Mermans and this is partially what they do.

Signal is fed to the 2251J through a choke as well as by-passing the choke so when blended, you get a composite and the signal that goes through the choke "lags" that of what doesn’t.

"In an inductor, the current lags behind the voltage. Specifically, in a purely inductive circuit, the current lags the voltage by 90 degrees. This means the peak current occurs later in time than the peak voltage." 

The contour control determines the amount of by-pass signal that blends with the choked signal.  As resistance is added, the signal through the choke predominates causing a rise in the ~1,500-2,500 band (sweetens up the vocals).  As resistance is removed, the two signals cancel each other out and the rise is removed leaving a "flat" signal.

This was done because it creates a very steep slope between the 2251J and the Heil.  These two drivers do not play nice together without some special treatment to reduce their overlap which can either cause a massive peak or massive suck-out if not handled properly.  (BTW, subsequent testing/listening shows R1 works best at about 28 ohms.)

 

@spenav ”How would you know the recording is changed unless you were at the recording studio or the live venue”

l would never know. I was talking about “if” a system did not actually reproduce the intended information or adds its own signature it is not true to the original.
 

“There is a difference in adding things or restoring things that were actually lost” 

I’m not sure if the “adding things” you refer to is in agreement with me or not, but the restoring things that ARE “actually lost” l am not sure is possible. The only way l would think you are talking about is maybe an extra recording element (or track that was part of the master) that has been recently rediscovered but was never included in the original mix?

An example that springs to mind of a lost, or in this case a rediscovered element is the 2.0 unlimited release of the soundtrack to “The Omega Man”  When the original first issue “limited edition” was released by Film Score Monthly 15 years earlier, it was not known that a third (centre) track of the keyboards/Synthesisers existed. The keyboards, a key (pun intended) important part of the score were quietly there on the original CD, but only recorded by the far left and right track microphones. Restoring the integral middle centre microphone elements with the higher keyboard levels brought the original soundstage ambiance back to that which was intended.

@mylogic 

I believe we are in agreement. I feel like we are a little too hang up on the fidelity part of Hi-Fi. It’s like trying to pick a faithful painting portrait of Abe Lincoln but we have never seen him in real life. It will be hard to know which one resembles him the most. Obviously, some of them would be rejected off hand: like Abe with dog ears or with a chicken beak or Abe with a tail. But there would be a fair number of portraits that would be plausible. Which one is true to the original would be hard to determine. At the end of the day, we will have to pick the one that pleases us the most. Because we are dealing with music reproduction and music as an art, we have to allow ourselves some freedom to choose based on preference to our ears even though we might stray from the supposed original. We also have to keep in mind, that our rooms have a lot to say about the presentation. Take care.

@spenav Exactly. Why should we hang ourselves up over this false notion we must adhere to some unknown reference. Now I can accept we have reference for things like timbre with acoustic instrument, but sound stage/presentations. Do whatever is pleasing to you.