Why most $3000 and lower DAC’s sound almost identical


I have a theory as to why all modern DACs essentially sound so similar these days, making it difficult to differentiate between them. IMO modern Delta Sigma chips have homogenized DACs into close to the same sound, making it very easy to take any DAC under $3000 and find it will sound good as another.

What I have discovered is that ladder R2R DACs and fully discrete DSD DAC’s are creating a better soundstage and less digital “glare”. An observation supported by countless others - nothing new. Anything with a Delta Sigma chip-based DAC that does oversampling will have less soundstage and more glare.

Nothing new so far - most of you will likely agree that that the above is a common consensus but here is the new bit, so read on if you are curious…

The dissatisfaction with this sound has led to a band-aid solution where Delta Sigma DAC manufacturers now offer a plethora of filters from sharp to smooth, linear phase to minimum phase. All of this is hand waving nonsense that offers a band aid to what is an absolutely fundamental design issue.

FUNDAMENTAL DESIGN ISSUE:

All oversampling with Delta Sigma offers superb measured spec at very low cost - it’s the logical choice for anyone using Precision test equipment to design a DAC. Typical chip filters use about 60 taps in their filters. They also ALL use Parks-McLellan filter designs (which has best “spec” and the short tap length is required for low-latency and easy processing). The result is a filter that has equiripple through the entire pass band. Mathematically it is a fact that an equiripple in the frequency domain equates to two echoes in the time domain - a pre-echo and post-echo. The “digital glare” heard is because of these echoes, likely the pre-echo is most audible. Our ears brain are processing the echos because unlike noise they are a complete reflection of the entire audio signal - low in level but lasting long enough to be detected by our acuity to locate the source of a sound. It is the same reason our speakers sound and image much better when moved out into the room and away from any close proximity to reflective surfaces. Despite these echoes being 60 db down from the primary signal, my listening sessions have convinced me of their audibility, particularly the echoes caused by the first 2x upsampling for 44.1 Redbook data (less so for higher resolution files).

CONCLUSION

Those who are trying MQA and various filters with typical Delta Sigma DAC’s are using band aids. A growing number of critical listeners have discovered that ladder R2R sounds better than typical DS DACs or, alternatively, that high precision conversion to DSD256 on a computer fed to a true one-bit discrete Delta Sigma converter (no chip) sounds equally great too. 
 

Basically any conversion that eliminates oversampling/upsampling done on a chip is going to have less digital glare and better soundstage because of this absolutely fundamental design flaw in ALL Delta Sigma DAC chips.


 

shadorne

Not everyone can hear the differences, but filters do have an impact on the quality of analog to digital conversion. Most DS DACs below $3k allow the user to select from among several filters. The Hybrid Fast filter has virtually no pre-ringing and usually sounds the best to me.

Here's what the ESS specs show:

This agrees with my own measurements (step and impulse) from the Topping D90SE:

Virtually no pre-ringing and minimal post-ringing. If folks are hearing "digital glare" from this filter and implementation, there's something else going on in their system. Could be simple, like an impedance mismatch between DAC and amplifier or they are just accustomed to more veiled sources.

incorrigable   I’m using the DAC onboard my Peachtree PreDac and I like it. There’s a handful of DAC chip manufacturers everybody uses. It is not cutting edge technology.

I agree. My WT bdp-95 (modded Oppo bdp-95) is 16 years old tech and sound better than everything new regardless of price. I have Chord Hugo2 and topping D50 DACs and I modded them with my best. And still my WT bdp-95 is way better than Hugo2 and D50 DACs. The good audio sound isn’t by the technology. To me, the new technology is for mostly removing the irritating reproduced sounds - not about music. I know this because I know how to make the closest to the original music reproduction audio. Alex/Wavetouch audio

https://youtu.be/6_Pd65RVCR4?si=Pi7cV_24SPwssRf8

Not just the Digital to Analog conversion that makes a difference but also how the Analog output of the DAC is implemented. IMHO up sampling contributes to a less transparent digital sound. Probably why most Ladder DACs sound more analog like. 

@dsnyder0cnn  I believe the ESS ES9028PRO chip includes linear-phase filters (LPFs) as well. While LPFs can introduce pre-ringing artifacts, they maintain phase accuracy across all frequencies. In contrast, minimum-phase filters (MPFs) minimize or eliminate pre-ringing by allowing phase shifts, which can affect phase accuracy. This presents a trade-off between temporal precision and phase linearity. Without empirical data, it’s challenging to determine which effect—pre-ringing or phase distortion—has a more significant impact on perceived sound quality within the limits of human hearing. Have you experimented with LPFs in your listening tests? 

I completely concur with your experience...

I used an old NOS dac which is better than many costlier dac with new technology...

I tried and failed to upgrade my dac in the price category and the new product was completely artificial and bad sound...Even couple with a good power supply...

As you said it well :

I agree. My WT bdp-95 (modded Oppo bdp-95) is 16 years old tech and sound better than everything new regardless of price. I have Chord Hugo2 and topping D50 DACs and I modded them with my best. And still my WT bdp-95 is way better than Hugo2 and D50 DACs. The good audio sound isn’t by the technology. To me, the new technology is for mostly removing the irritating reproduced sounds - not about music. I know this because I know how to make the closest to the original music reproduction audio. Alex/Wavetouch audio