Why most $3000 and lower DAC’s sound almost identical

The Haas precedence effect is one of the guiding principle in applied acoustics at all scale for Hall acoustics and as in our smaller room...We must takes it into account to adress the reflections points roles...

I cannot add anything to your post with which i concur...

 

It is proven that human audition beat the Fourier uncertainty  principle limit or the Gabor limit because Human hearing extract information working in his own non linear time domain... Then you are right... Timbre is way more than just a "color" or a taste but a mirror of the way ears/brain create music and extract  objective information from the vibrating sound source.

https://phys.org/news/2013-02-human-fourier-uncertainty-principle.html

 I also confirm that your idea about dac are mine too even if i had less experience with different dac design than you...

@mahgister 

Absolutely agree about human hearing complexity. I am utterly convinced we hear sound as a complex interpreted amalgam of the different responses at both our ears analyzed over a short period of time. This is called the Haas effect - that the Haas effect exists is absolute proof we do NOT hear the transient instantaneous signal - we hear a processed result of some kind of analysis of approximately 40 milliseconds of sound - almost an eternity when you really think about it relative to a “transient”.

I believe the differences we hear in modulators and filters for digital upsampling are almost entirely due to the equiripple in the pass band that creates echos in the time domain. Engineers believe that a tiny ripple at 70 db below the noise floor isn’t audible but they are forgetting that this ripple is across the entire frequency domain and leads to a highly correlated pre and post echo not random noise. And our ears brain are super sophisticated at locating sound origin - ESPECIALLY if the echo is occurring across the entire frequency domain (which is the case with equiripple from digital processing)  - the entire original source sound is echoed exactly at a low level and we hear it - it directly affects timbre and soundstage.

 

 

The human hearing cannot be understood by modeling it with a set of Fourier maps and calling it job done...

It is way more complex...

This is why the measures set of a dac is not telling all the tale and why you are right...

 

 Among the very best sounding DACs, to me, are Audio Note DACs that measure spectacularly poorly.

 

After my last adventure trusting reviewers who has no idea about a "natural organic timbre sound" who sell dac which are  artificial sounding, i will stuck to my SPS dac (i succeeded to repair)...

By the way all these people selling dac not one said that a dac must be well grounded to sound the best, not one...

 

 By the way i had seen grounding box sold for many thousand bucks...

I created mine for peanuts and total success...

They sell product and do not inform most of the times....

 

 

I completely concur with your experience...

I used an old NOS dac which is better than many costlier dac with new technology...

I tried and failed to upgrade my dac in the price category and the new product was completely artificial and bad sound...Even couple with a good power supply...

As you said it well :

I agree. My WT bdp-95 (modded Oppo bdp-95) is 16 years old tech and sound better than everything new regardless of price. I have Chord Hugo2 and topping D50 DACs and I modded them with my best. And still my WT bdp-95 is way better than Hugo2 and D50 DACs. The good audio sound isn’t by the technology. To me, the new technology is for mostly removing the irritating reproduced sounds - not about music. I know this because I know how to make the closest to the original music reproduction audio. Alex/Wavetouch audio

 

A technology can evolve by itself electronicacally  this evolution may be independent of audible positive evaluation...

 

 My low cost old NOS Dac TDA 1543 SPS is so good i failed to upgrade it with a Douk Q11, a low cost dac... ( my French Nos SPS dac suddenly stopped working but   happily  i repaired it after ordering the Douk)

 

The technology of the Douk is more sophisticated though than the minimalistic French battery dac...

 

But in term of S.Q. on all acoustics factors the TDA 1543  win on all front in a so evident manner i was shocked...

 My system is low cost but very good, i cannot pay 600 bucks for a new dac in a system which value  300 bucks...

I lost 150 bucks on this Douk Q11, listening everyone raving about his good sound...

Reviewers, most of them, if honest  had no idea what is a good sound (acoustically ) or they sold at all cost what any company ask them to sold...

 

I know how a good dac must  sound through a controlled room with an optimized system...

 

 I had another chinese dac (Hidizs) which sound very well this one for my main headphone system with the TOP K340 very picky headphone which need a very clean dac not a warmer one as the SPS NOS TDA 1543...

 

I will test My K3340 soon again with  my repaired SPS French NOS dac versus the Hidizs dac i like a lot...

 

i heard an immediate difference in my system with all the dacs i bought ...

If someone dont hear a difference his system is acoustically problematic...

Or there is not much difference when we  compare two high end dac, near transparency perfection  on a high end system in a dedicated acoustic room.,.The difference here will be minimal...

 

But the differences between my SPS TDA 1543 and the Douk Q11 is the difference between night and day...

I know the  American Geshelli would be better but it will cost me more than my system price +tariffs...

 

 

 

My point is dac differences exist not only because of different design "per se",

But also by the synergy with other gear pieces...

The same dac paired with different gear may be judged differently...

Add to that the complex and huge variations in acoustic  speakers/ room settings,

And you have the story :

Objectivist claiming dac made no difference (transparency)

Subjectivist claiming their dac is better than others...

 

I claim that no piece of gear sound the same embedded  in different mechanical,electrical and acoustical working dimensions...

I claim that sound qualities are acoustically described and analysed with many different concepts all at work...

 

I have 4 low cost dac none sound the same...

One is  NOS TDA 1543...

The three other are from some ESS chips variety, one AKM chip...

 

 Their difference is greater for the good if i optimize them, relative to the pairing with other pieces of gear(cable,equalizer, tube, op-amp, linear power supply etc)

I do not claim they are high-end but they are not trash...

I use them all for different goal and coupling...

 

Most people "idolize" the gear and even if there exist impactful differences in design for the better or the worst, mechanical,electrical,acoustical working dimensions  are more important than most audiophile reviewers plug and play evaluation which goal is to sell the gear...