Why are my SF Venere S Speakers not sounding as warm?
"What do you all think of the pre amps coming from http://www.tubes4hifi.com/custom.htm and or Don Sachs?" Don Sachs makes an excellent preamp but you may need to wait since there's usually a wait list. You'll not be disappointed. |
@tice34 For Audyssey, use all 8 microphone positions. The first one should be dead centered where you sit, all other 7 should be where your head could be if you are slouching, leaning forwards, they should not be more than 3ft from the 1st position. Also, try to avoid placing it right up against any headrests. Have Dynamic Volume (a dynamic compressor) off. Have Dynamic EQ on. However, it’s default is for the typical mastering of movies, change the Reference Offset based on the type of content you listen to. 5dB for classical, 10dB for tv/pop/hip-hop, 15dB for heavily dynamically compressed music (a lot of metal/rock). I watch a lot of movies and tv and play a lot of hip-hop, so I go in the middle and choose 5dB, as the movie default results in way too much bass for music. What Dynamic EQ does is use the Equal Loudness Contours to adjust the frequency response based on playback levels, so that it always sounds neutral. However, you have probably noticed that if you play a movie on your system and then switch a pop/hip-hop song, you lower be volume, so that throws the Dynamic EQ off because they are mastered to different levels, so that’s why the offset is available. If you feel you can’t get Dynamic EQ to work with your tastes, then it off. If you feel you can’t get Audyssey right, use the L/R bypass, so it only corrects the subwoofer. |
Your Marantz SR6012 receiver has no XLR pre-outs. You can use a pair of RCA cables to connect to your Krell stereo power amp. But still for your stereo music playbacks you will need to get a separate dedicated stereo preamp with HT bypass. And connect your front end source components(s) for your stereo music directly to a stereo preamp. So when listening to stereo music materials you don't even have to turn on your Marantz SR6012 receiver at all. The Marantz receiver's preamp section isn't good at all for stereo music playbacks. |
The Marantz 6012 has no balanced circuitry, so there is no reason to connect to the amp's XLR inputs. I think you just need the best RCA interconnects you can get. Wireworld Silver Eclipse 6, 7, or 8 seems to be a very nice sounding interconnect that you can often find used here on Agon. For more cable suggestions, you might try asking in the Audiogon cables forum. |
mzkmxcv, Thank you I am going to play with the placement when I get the new amp in and up and running. I will definitely be planning a chunk of time for that. I can see what you are telling me about the Audyssey, so far I am not a fan of that system. Or at least I have not figured out how to use it to my advantage yet. And the sub was purchased out of necessity regarding the size right now, it fills the room decent enough, but tucks away out of sight which is what I needed to keep the Mrs. happy ;) |
Well, it would depend on which type connectors you have on your 6012 and your power amp. What types do you have? My power amp has only XLR connectors and my AVR has only rca connectors, so I use rca interconnects with an XLR adapter on the amp end. As to which interconnects, I have for several years been using a set of High Fidelity CT-1 interconnects. They are pretty pricey, but I've never heard such good sound before. I think they cost $1,500 back in that day. At more reasonable prices, Wireworld and Audioquest makes some quality interconnects. |
1) Don’t let anyone tell you the Marantz isn’t good enough, it is more than good enough. 2) SF’s Venere line is not warm, I’d say they are even a tad bright. 3) Did you try with no toe-in? Listening at 30° off axis (assuming you are in an equilateral triangle) will for sure make them sound more warm, and they image well so no issues with doing that. 4) That DefTech sub in actuality is pretty lacking, despite what you said, $500 for a 7.5” subwoofer is a rip off unless you cannot fit a bigger sub. A Rythmik L12 is around the same price and is much better. 5) adding a tube preamp won’t change the sound one bit if you still run Audyssey, and if you don’t, it will make the speaker bright again, most likely more than the warmth added from the tube preamp. 6) If no toe-in srill isn’t warm enough, try extreme toe-in, having the speakers angled 15° past you (intersecting a foot or two in front of you). 7) Play with placement from the front wall as well as the sidewalls. 8) Adjust your seating distance from the rear wall. |
Since you are now going be using your 6012 as a pre-amp, you will need a set of interconnects to connect to the Krell. Now, unless you get very good interconnects, you may actually experience a LOSS of audio quality in terms of fine detail, texture, high frequency extension, and possibly bass extension. I know because I've been using my AVRs for years in this fashion, i.e., with a separate power amp. I you notice some loss in audio quality, don't let anyone tell you that cables can't make that much difference, trust your ears. You may have to experiment with multiple interconnects. |
Question: What do you all think of the pre amps coming from http://www.tubes4hifi.com/custom.htm and or Don Sachs? |
OK, I just ordered the Krell 2250 Amplifier and will be using (for now) my Mrantz as the pre amp for the Sonus Fabers. I know there is a matching pre amp that is recommeded the Krell 280p I believe it is, and I am considering this but also have read A LOT that a tube pre with this Amp is very ideal. Caphill - Thank you very much for all your input, you made me do a lot of research. I decided to go with the stereo amp because it seems to provide a better tone and power for just musical playback and if I can match it with a tube pre I may be right where I want to be. Once I have the Krell in line and get to listen to it for a while and build back up my Audio Budget, I will be on the hunt for the pre. I will also be using the "MASTER SET" SPEAKER POSITIONING once everything is hooked up and I will be looking at different room treatment options that can blend with our living room. Thank you all so much and I will update this when the Amp comes in and I get a few hours out of it! |
@tice34 You should upgrade your electronic. Your Marantz SR6012 AV receiver is holding back the performance of your system. It is far from ideal pairing with your SB Veneer S speakers. You should make efforts upgrading from your Marantz SR6012 av receiver. Since you’re doing both stereo for music and surround sound movies I would recommend getting AV separates. What’s your setup? 5.1/5.2 or 7.1/7.2 or 9.1/9.2? Marantz makes really good AV preamp surround processor (pre pro) and you should seriously consider the new Marantz AV8805 pre pro or a used recently discontinued AV8802/AV8802A pre pro. Other great sounding pre pros that I highly recommend would be the Classe Sigma SSP (optimized for stereo music playbacks), a used Classe SSP 800 (discontinued), NAD M17, Krell Foundation, a used Krell 1200U (long discontinued), Anthem AVM60, Cary Cinema 12. But the Cary Cinema 12 consistently has had HDMI board issues. Their HDMI boards start failing after couple yrs of use. Seemed like most or all units have failing HDMI boards. As for a multi-channel power amp I would highly recommend either the Rotel RMB-1585 five-channel amp or the Parasound Halo A51 five-channel amp. These AV separates will elevate the performance of your system to a whole new level than what you currently have (Marantz SR6012 av receiver). |
Wow, THANK YOU everyone for the insight and education I very much appreciate it and is exactly what I was looking for. I definitely know I need to do some treatment to my room but I was really wondering about needing better amps and such and you all gave great advice. I will start doing some research, I am also going to return to the show room to see what I missed. I know they used McIntosh equipment with the Venere S setup they had I just don't know what else they had or how much power they actually had running to these. This will be a work in progress as I am sure most of you have your own audio projects ongoing. But this gives me a good direction |
@tice34 First let me ask you this : are you only doing stereo setup for listening to music only or surrounds for both HT and stereo music? Cause you are using the Marantz SR6012 av receiver so I automatically assumed that you have a surround system setup. If you're only doing stereo and use your setup to only listen to stereo music I wouldn't get AV separates, I would recommend getting a good quality stereo integrated amp or good quality stereo preamp + stereo power amp. Stereo gears will sound better than multi-channel gears. |
I have almost the exact same dimensions as the OP including the same vaulted ceiling from 9 to 15’. Bass from the 802D3 is good, but I do use a little boosting on the preamp. That said, I would agree with above that the first place to look is amplification. In addition, for home theater you’re going to want a great sub or 2. I’ve got the SVS SB-16 and my bass is prolific. |
You have couple serious major issues. First is your electronics and second is your untreated living room. I wouldn’t run these Sonus Faber Veneer S speakers off a cheap mediocre Marantz SR6012 AV receiver or any AV receivers if I were you. You will not get a full potential of your Sonus Faber speakers by running them off this cheap Marantz SR6012 AV receiver. You will need to upgrade to good quality AV separates. For a budget five-channel power amp I would highly recommend the Rotel RMB-1585 retails for $3k new. This is a five-channel class AB amp. It’s a great sounding and is a high performance amp. It’s a very good amp especially for the money. Another great five-channel amp will be the Parasound Halo A51 retails for $4500 new and IMO it is better than the Rotel RMB-1585. For an affordable AV pre pro (preamp surround processor) I recommend the Marantz AV8802 or AV8805 or the Anthem AVM60. The Anthem has superior room correction (ARC2) than the Marantz’s Audyssey. The step up in sound quality and audio performance than these Marantz or the Anthem AVM60 will be the Classe Sigma SSP, Krell Foundation series or an older Krell 1200U (long discontinued), Classe SSP 800 (discontinued), NAD M17, Cary Cinema 12. But the Cary Cinema 12 has been well known for their failing HDMI board/switching it sounds really good for both stereo music & surround movies but constantly has been having issues. Seemed like almost every single unit fails after couple yrs of use. HDMI board failure. The combination of a good quality AV pre pro and a great five-channel amp such as the Rotel RMB-1585 amp will drastically elevate the performance of your system setup to a whole new different level of sonic performance from your Marantz SR6012 av receiver. Lastly, you will need room treatments for your living room and try to tweak around with speaker placements / positioning. A well treated room coupled with proper speaker placements will make big difference. |
This is the Lab report on what they will be like to drive, seems like these unlike their more expensive range are very easy to drive by anything short of rubbing two sticks together. I recommend a baby Class-A like the pass labs XA or even tubes. " Sonus faber claims a 90dB sensitivity for the Venere S, close to our measured 89.5dB pink noise figure. Remarkably, this high sensitivity is achieved without recourse to low impedance. Sonus faber specifies a 4ohm nominal figure, with our results showing a minimum of 3.9ohm at 44Hz, but what sets the Venere S apart is its unusually well-contained impedance phase angles. Whereas phase angles in excess of 50o are not unusual, the Venere S’s largest absolute phase angle is just 28o . As a result the minimum EPDR (equivalent peak dissipation resistance), over the same 20Hz-20kHz, is 2.7ohm – a full 1ohm higher than typical of floorstanders of this size and class. As modern speakers go, the Venere S is unusually easy to drive. Forward frequency response [Graph 1, below], measured at tweeter height, evinces a mildly rising trend up to 10kHz, after which output falls by 4dB at 20kHz and dives thereafter. But the response error of just ±2.2dB for both speakers of the pair (300Hz-20kHz) is a fine result, especially for a speaker of this price. (Ignore the response fall-off below 350Hz which is an artefact of a shorter than usual measurement time window.) No less remarkable is a pair matching error of just ±0.6dB over the same frequency range. The diffraction-corrected nearfield measurement showed the Venere S’s bass extension to be 53Hz (–6dB re. 200Hz), a typical figure for a floorstander of this size and sensitivity. Because the response falls off a cliff above 20kHz, extension to ultrasonic frequencies is less impressive. The cumulative spectral decay waterfall [Graph 2, below] shows fast initial decay at treble frequencies albeit with a low-level resonance visible at 2.5kHz. KH" Cheers George |
These dealers know how to set up speakers to sound their best. Also, what electronics were they using? Were they running them off of an AVR? They may have been using power conditioning and high end amplification. Also, how big was the room the dealer had them in? Perhaps it was larger than your listening room and perhaps they had the room well treated for reflections. If your room is smaller, the speakers will have less space to fill and could sound a lot brighter. |
