Agree. I'm fond of the Phoenix controllers and used them with my tables. Too bad they are gone.
Why According to some Turntable extremists Pitch Control and Direct Drive is Sacrilege?
Why shouldnt perfect direct drive speed and pitch control be part of an Audiophile turntable system. Not having pitch control is like missing a stereo mono switch.
Every high end turntable should have pitch control.
Every high end turntable should have pitch control.
134 responses Add your response
My Notts turntable sounded way way better after I inserted a Walker Audio Precision Motor Controller into the AC supply and calibrated the speed. However, everything associated with speed stability (e.g., pitch stability most easily detected with piano music) got even better when I replaced the Notts with a Lenco L75. And the Lenco got better with the addition of the Phoenix Engineering stuff, including the RR. Once the Lenco is up to speed, the RR feedback is doing very little; you can see that by the frequency with which the unit tells you it is making corrections. The frequency of flashing goes way down to once every several revolutions, whereby the unit is making corrections on the order of less than .01 rpm, up or down. So I don't see how the RR corrections could be causing any audible treble problems, but you hear what you hear. |
I would not call it treble problems, the treble is just cleaner without correction. The heavy platter in combination with very low friction imparts a stability on its own, very little correction is needed. I still use the Road Runner for calibration, on days with large power fluctuations, a short connection with the needle in the groove brings speed up to 33.333 rpm, and it stays there without additional correction. |
You hit the Nail on the head!!! Heavy platters for belt drives is the way to go. The difference in sound is huge. I feel need to build a heavier platter. Have one at 33 and another at 40 lbs. Most of the lead is in the outer radius so that helps alot. How do you set a 100 lb platter on the bearing??? What was the difference in sound with the extra 50 lbs??? Enjoy the ride Tom |
The extra 50 lb stainless steel platter was added on top of the original lead platter with no pressure on the air bearing. With crossed fingers the compressor was started, and the bearing did it’s job without complaining. I give the platter a startup push and target speed is reached in about 30 seconds. The power supply actually ramps power up and down in the startup fase to minimize belt slip/wear. The belt runs on a sub platter that is also the upper part of the air bearing , and is relatively short, custom made for me by Origin Live in the UK. The extra 50 lb gives you better image stability, and improved dynamics and bass. I did not expect the level of improvement that where the result. |
We are very insensitive to pitch. Very few humans have perfect pitch. What we are very sensitive to is amplitude and phase. You have to be able to locate that enemy or prey. If you were playing along with a record and wanted to match pitch so it didn't sound as if you are out of tune pitch control would be handy but as an audiophile all we care about is 331/3, 45 and sometimes 78. Rumble is way more annoying than anything else. |
Oh, I forgot to mention. It is not so much the weight but where the weight is placed. Ideally it should be at the periphery of the platter. Too much weight and you wear your bearing out faster. Out of balance and you wear your bearing out faster. The best way to go if you wanted to increase the flywheel effect is a periphery ring like VPI, Kuzma and Clearaudio make. Just because a platter weights more does not mean that it is better. |
Uber, This is all nothing but my opinion based on owning two consecutive Lenco L75s, one that I bought from John Nantais with one of his heavy plinths and his other tweaks, and the other that I bought absolutely stock (NOS) and tweaked myself. First, I never listened to my NOS L75 before modifying it, but most experienced Lenco persons say the OEM unit can sound very good, with the Achilles heel being the tonearm. Yet, there are those who defend the tonearm as at least being OK. I really liked the Nantais Lenco, but I was bent on building one with a slate plinth, so I sold my Nantais version and had created a slate plinth for my OEM Lenco, using a 65-lb slab of Pennsylvania slate and the pattern provided by Peter Reinders (do a search on that name); it was cut with a waterjet using Peter's pdf file to program the machine. I then also purchased a massive aftermarket bearing made by "Jeremy" in England. I had the platter painted with a thick coat of vibration-absorbing paint, and I further dampened it using large O-rings stretched around the circumference, below the playing surface. Last, I regulate platter speed using the aforementioned Phoenix Eagle PS and Roadrunner tach. You don't have to do all or any of these things to get a nice sounding turntable for the cost of an L75 alone. I paid $500 for my NOS one, but good used ones are typically around $300, or at least they were, back then. I would say that my slate Lenco stacks up along with all my DD turntables except the SP10 Mk3 and the L07D, but the differences are not night and day. The latter two DDs are just a bit more completely neutral. You should go to the website "Lenco Heaven" for more information. 13blm, In my opinion, there are two basic schools of turntable design: heavy platter/weak motor vs relatively lightweight platter/strong motor, typically with speed regulation. As you and others have said, the heavy platter itself provides a form of speed stability due to its rotational inertia. Also "weak motor" always means belt drive, because the motor of a DD would have to be very powerful in order to motivate a heavy platter, e.g., the Technics SP10 Mk3 with its 21-lb platter and massive hi-torque motor. Avid turntables are examples of belt drives with relatively light platters and strong motors. Most other high end belt drives are massive platter/weak motor types. (If you want rotational inertia to keep constant speed, you don't want a powerful motor that can disturb the equilibrium.) Also, with a belt drive, you get the mechanical advantage of the small pulley driving a much larger wheel (the platter), and therefore a weak motor can work. I don't like blanket statements, like a heavy platter is always better. It depends upon how you want the speed to be maintained. |
I guess we can add platter mat like gunmetal Micro Seiki CU180 or CU-500 on the platter to change the weight, also a record weight like Micro ST-10 on top. Then we can compare the sound with ot without mats/weight. It's not necessary to change the platter itself. Those Micro Seiki accessories are not for every turntable, but many turntables can accept them. |
Thank you very much Lewm. Very useful and informative. I am certainly intrigued by the Lenco especially after you had basically the same combo as I presently have , Nottingham Spacedeck and Walker controller and think the Lenco came out better. Would be interesting to see how a stock but good condition Lenco would fare in same comparison. From what I can gather the stock Lenco arm is pretty heavy so will have to read up on suitable carts as well. |
Uber, the website “Lenco Heaven” will tell you everything you could want to know about the L75, and more. There are a few inexpensive vintage tonearms that are drop-in replacements for the original. And then you’ve got something really good. You can also read about the crazy things that others have done, with the L75 as a basis. Apologies to everyone else for stealing this thread for a moment. I will cease to spout off on Lenco. |
Generalization and over zealous ownership biases. .... Two of the absolute worst criteria to choose most audio, but especially turntables , and the arms and cartridges needed to complete the job. Many think direct drive is the " only " choice for best of in a field with exceptional belt and idler drives when executed properly are preferred by many. If a direct drive sounds brittle to one persons ears and pleasing to another......it’s why we have choices for our own tastes, and not just for the zealots of one drive choice. They ALL, have strengths and inherent weekness’s and all are not equal in their own camps or against each other. Direct drive and the claim of perfect pitch with all the faults some hear and others are bias blind to ignore , is just a preference. Like belt drives some more accurate than some realize and others that are not as accurate but have executed all other perameters to remove self noise. The .025 wow and flutter of a good direct drive , on the surface is impressive but it’s just one thing of many that harms playback. A good belt drive with .05 wow and flutter , as much as some direct drive and idler zealots scream, will be unoticed by most as a problem at all. Thats about 16 thousands of an rpm off or .6 seconds off after an entire side. Some claim to hear it....I think they are full of it. Belts can suffer the same with a power supply constantly adjusting apposed to minor corrections . Their is no one drive choice is better in my view. They all have brands/models that excell, and that suck ,both in performance and value (price). Turntables and phono preamplifiers I think an open mind is better than a personal biased closed in narrow view of what OTHERS should like. We all hear differently and focus on different points of music, genres, frequency extremes etc... What’s wrong with choice let alone mine over yours..... |
If a direct drive sounds brittle to one persons ears and pleasing to another......it’s why we have choices for our own tastes, and not just for the zealots of one drive choice. Do you compare different turntables with the same tonearm/cartridge ? The .025 wow and flutter of a good direct drive , on the surface is impressive but it’s just one thing of many that harms playback. A good belt drive with .05 wow and flutter , as much as some direct drive and idler zealots scream, will be unoticed by most as a problem at all. A good DD has lower wow and flutter: 0.015 Denon DP-80 and Technics SP-10 mkIII 0.02 Victor TT-101 0.025 Luxman PD-444 and new Technics SL1200GAE And don't forget that cutting lathe is Direct Drive too |
@kps25sc I owned a Nakamichi TT for years, direct drive made as good as the Japanese could make them back then. Tried several arms, including a Forsell linear air bearing arm, it never sounded really good. Which one? Probably The Dragon CT ? Because their best and extremely rare today TX-1000 was probably made by Micro Seiki. |
@chakster Yes , of course the same arm n cart. Apples to apples, always. I'm really not as impressed with specs as you seem to be. Wow and flutter is but one measurement and also one with dubious formulas behind its final claims. Not really seeing the reason for you to say that .025 for a DD needs to be lower to be a better table. Its the same as your Lux 444, a table I owned a lifetime ago which you praise but now what are you actually saying? Its not up to par? Specs mean little without all the accompanying perameters to do no harm to that tiny signal. Self noise and rejection of outside vibrations is more important than .008 rpm off speed by a large margin IMHO anyway. What does a DD motor on a cutting lathe have to do at all with playing them back. THAT'S apples to avacodos. No music is played or noise in the room when a cutting lathe cuts grooves and sits on a secure floor on a stabilized and isolated stand. Your home environment is more hostile for noise, static, reflection and deflection of floors and walls . It means nothing as far as the superiority that a turntable needs to be DD to be the best. Thats just nonsense. Any honest music loving anologue head will know all drives offer some exceptional playback regardless of what biased zealots claim. We have preferences for sound, looks, and the ergonomics of use we gravitate towards. They all have strengths and weaknesses no matter how low some formulated spec is. It's no guarantee it will sound it's best or be the best or be the general consensus that it is in fact all that. There are a lot, a real lot of non DD tables that many prefer over the technics and others. Thats proof, generalizations and biased ownership are the worst forms of choice for all. Best for those that can't acknowledge others right to choose what suits others needs and preferences of sound. I've heard very good belted units, DD's and idler drives. Very good examples of all drives exist for superb playback. In fact I heard a very well sorted idler drive make an expensive technics DD sound anemic in comparison just yesterday. Like the folks who like the sound of their Rega over a DD......it doesn't make them wrong and your bias right. It just makes them enjoy a choice they made and prefer over something like DD that they hear as hard unenjoyable to THIER hearing , not yours or mine. I like and prefer choice and the flavor some drives bring to certain music also. Choice is good or the only question asked on this forum if some had their way would be " so what color did you get your technics in?"...... |
The Anvil Turntable is a very special design, actually it remains me of another great modern TT, the Salvation designed by Vic the Magician at Trans-Fi Audio in the UK (well of course). At the time, a couple of years back I was planning to make my own TT and just came across the Anvil Turntables online. I suddenly realized that I was looking at an incarnation of Vic´s Salvation. What a gorgeous design, so simple and beautiful ! So I got in contact with Bruce to make an appropriate motor for my platter I had had a few months already. Well, you know I was very tempted to just buy the Anvil but I had my plan to complete. Bruce was very helpful but we faced platter size problems with fitting his motor to my a bit larger platter. Long story short, we couldn´t solve our problem so I gave up ... What a shame. Now I can´t find his turntable shop online anymore. Is he still making them, what happened to Anvil ? |
@has2be I don’t care about belt drives, it’s a priori inferior technology. There is a belt with compliance, low torque .. this is what i never liked. This is enough for me to ignore this technology forever. No single belt drive can give me what a Direct Drive can, been using japanese DD motors for about 25 years. Two Luxman PD-444, Two Victor TT-101, one Denon DP-80 is what i have now for the main system. Sold my Technics SP-10mkII and SP-20. If you ever seen me recommending Technics for other users it’s because nothing can compete with the current price for a brand new Technics G or GR, only some vintage Direct Drive TT can be better. And nothing can compete with the prices for top quality vintage DD like Denon DP-80, you can’t buy anything like that for the money people asking for DP-80 drive for example. It is a steal, best deal ever. Your belt drive is a joke in this price range up to $1500, considering a good belt drive for $1200-1500 is a dream, shops selling entry level turntables for students for that money nowadays, for this price you can only buy some plastic toys on the modern market (made in china). As i said some belt drives that i believe can be good cost $30 000 (like top Micro Seiki) and thank you, i’m better off with my Luxman PD-444 DD for under $3000 or even Technics SP-10mkII for $1500. The prices for Garrard 301 are insane! So if you have unlimited budget for all those overpriced belt drives or idler you’re free to buy them all. But motivating people to buy a cheap junk belt drives is not what i’d like to do on the public forum. When you’re talking about some turntables please add the models and prices, i have no idea what you’re talkling about. While vintage Japnese Direct Drive are the most reasonably priced High-End turntables on the market it is much better to buy them for those who does not have unlimited budget. And i’m not talking about some cheap modern junk, i’m talking about exceptional Direct Drive turntables from the 70s/80s, they are still 10 times cheaper than any belt of idler pretedning to be good. Personally i’ve never paid more than $1500 for any top vintage Direct Drive i’ve mentioned here (with express delivery to my door from all over the world). What $1500 belt drive can compete with Luxman PD-444 designed for two tonearms in a superveavy plinth, or with Denon DP80 and coreless Victor TT-101 ??? P.S. As much as i hate $15k modern cartridges, i hate those $30k belt drives too, i have no idea who’s buying them. Technics charge for an SP-10R with coreless motor just $9k, even this big number is a bargain compared to many high-end belt drives on the market. And SL-1200G is a bargain at $4k with the same coreless DD motor. |
One thing that tends to be overlooked in this endless debate is that belt drive is more economically viable for the "cottage industry" turntable manufacturer. A lot of the, in my view, baseless criticism of direct drive goes back to the 70s/80s when there was something of a smear campaign to promote certain British belt drive models against Japanese direct drives. The truth was that the combined profits of all the cottage industry manufacturers back then wouldn’t account for a fraction of the turntable R&D costs of a company like Technics at the time. VPI’s recent introduction of a very pricey, and I’m sure very great, DD model confirms that small manufacturers can only entertain this type of technology at prices way above what most people would find affordable. As for any harshness in the mid range, I’ve never heard this in my own Technics SL1600 Mk2, though I did get a massive improvement in overall sound quality by fitting a KABusa silicone damper to the arm and sitting the deck on Audio Technica AT-605 feet. DD is no different from belt drive in that it can be tweaked in a number of ways. Ultimately everyone must decide which type of turntable is best for them. There are no rights and wrongs, just opinions. Use your ears... |
@chakster You really should get use to adding to your Japanese DD obsession diatribes with the caveat...."in your opinion"...not everyone does or is required to be that narrow of mind and sight to enjoy their music , played back their way. Some folks don't want to have to build a massive plinth and modifications to motor drives that actually sound terrible without that expense. So they really are in many cases incomplete for some. I own all drives. They all have as I said before, their own strengths and weaknesses, their own sound which for some, that sound is the preference THEY choose. All the ranting and knocking down of others choices and labeling what they choose as cheap junk and yours as the best choice for all, doesn't make it so. It makes you come off as unable to allow let alone even entertain the fact others choose for their needs and wants and don't really care about what you or anyone else claims as fact. Its just your opinion, and that I respect and your entitled to it. You just need to realize your not in any way entitled to belittle or force your narrow view of things on others as gospel. They are also entitled to have the right to their own opinion and it be respected as such..... till your given the official title of The authority on turntables. ...it's just your opinion. The nice thing about opinions when respected, people can absorb and learn new things. Thats how an open mind and an open forum works. When it parades opinions as fact with personal jabs it becomes something less functional and less knowledge is willingly shared and those that push their opinions often don't even know the experience they are shutting themselves away from ..... |
Ah it was you Bruce : ) Please to meet you again. Firstly, your deck is the most interesting thing since Salvation in modern High End really, IMHO. Of course the tables are different, yours is made of metal both platter and base, Vic´s is slate with aluminium platter, and the tables look different. Both platters/spindles have very tight tolerances and practically weight the same, platter damping techniques are quite different too, though. Different motors yet both very high quality. Yet there is something very special in both designs that takes these decks to a higher performance level, namely the maglev spindle. I know exactly was this means because I´m experienced too. The maglev simply works. That´s why I call your design as an incarnation of Salvation, you see. The Anvil is another implementation to the speed stability subject. The essence is the spindle ass´y, the heart of the turntable. For me there is no mystery. There are not so many that sophisticated maglev designs in the market, I´m afraid... |
@has2be You really should get use to adding to your Japanese DD obsession diatribes with the caveat...."in your opinion"...not everyone does or is required to be that narrow of mind and sight to enjoy their music , played back their way. I don’t even read after that paragraph, you did not even mentioned what turntable are you refering to as your own choice while i have actually mentioned some exceptional vintage and new direct drive turntables with current price tag. So, again, i have no idea what you’re talking about, i hope you’re not advocating for those cheap plastic belt drives like Rega or similar junk, because i’ve seen and tried them, most of my friend (newbies) who bought them by mistake (brainwashed by reviews) replaced them later with vintage Technics DD recently and noticed huge improvement in everything from sound quality to usability (and it was affordable high-end, talking about this pair). And all of them who did not replaced them yet, but heard my DDs in my system, are willing to replace their belt drive turntables as soon as possible. Glad you own all types of turntables, but you won’t tell us the brands, exact models and prices. I don’t want to own all types of turntables, i only need a few, but i want to make sure the speed is correct, the sound is great and i don’t have to service them often. I’m much more interesting in tonearms and cartridges to reach my audio nirvana. I appreciate design of those vintage DDs and i don’t like the design and everything associated with belt drives in the same price range, there is nothing to choose, really. If you think there is some in $1500-3000 price range than can compete with Luxman PD-444, Denon DP-80, Victor TT-101 or Technics SP-10mkII please add links and we will see what do you mean. There are mode decent DDs, but i onwly mentined what i have (had). There is a belt drive that does not looks like a plastic toy, but it’s $30k minimum (without tonearms). It is not affordable for me. At the moment your post in pointless untill you will name turntables of your choice if you’re so proud of the belt drives. |
@chakster You really , really , really should read , then comprehend BEFORE you reply. Where did I say or give the idea I was all about belted tables or cheap plastic stuff. Why are you so demeaning to anyone who points out there are other choices besides what you narrowly see and opine like your the gospel according to chatter. I like , own and appreciate all drives for their individual sound and the unique way each approaches the same goals for playback. I currently own an Orbe SE with Graham 2.0 tc arm, Recently purchased back my Micro RX 5000 and put on an Sme iv arm and the max 282 I had kept. I have a Lenco 75 with a Trans Fi terminator arm. I recently refurbished an SP 10 mkii A and set it in a panzerhotz and carbon plinth with the EPA 100 mkii arm I bought with it. I have a Reed 3p arm to be used on a custom table I am in the middle of building (mass weight heavy plinth and platter belt drive. I use to repair and refurbished many of those Japanese DD tables so it's a mystery to me why your so thick and quick to defend what you don't need to. I NEVER said they were inferior or belts were better....that's your thing to run others choices down because they don't match yours and even go off half cocked when no one said your wrong , but desparaging others opinions and choices is not impressive, at all. I am fully aware of how good many DD tables were in their day and how the value they have can be good IF YOU LIKE THE SOUND OF THEM. To some they don't do it for them , some like a good idler , others a good belted unit for THEIR preference and budget. Not everyone can afford what some of us took a lifetime to build up and enjoy. This I do know, many a Rega owner is happy with what they have, enjoy it and that's all that matters. Owning this stuff isn't impressive chackster, it's fortunate we do , but the guy with the lowly belt drive you actually used the word hate to describe. ......he enjoys his own preference, his music and gear as much as anyone....so why be a jerk and look down on them.....respectful attitudes to fellow enthusiasts costs nothing. ....... |
Chakster you really dont get it do you? My belt drive does speed as well as a direct drive and is a 65# beast. Some other belt drives too. Any reasonably engineered tt can do it ( manufacturing a different story ) plenty of other parameters affect sound at least as much as w& f.I like the Technics too but I’ve heard direct drives sound like a hollow mess. Again, one topology not necessarily king. Dont be so cynical it’s all good |
: ) Let me put it this way ... my PD444 sounded like hollow... well accuracy if you like. In other words, digital. And actually its seeming dynamics sounded more like just sheer power not real dynamics, e.g. music really, just power. All in all, its sound didn´t manage to move me emotionally, spiritually nor intellectually. I know exactly what´s happening deep inside that monster deck, that Godzilla of ancient DD TT dinosaur. |
You really , really , really should read , then comprehend BEFORE you reply. Where did I say or give the idea I was all about belted tables or cheap plastic stuff. Why are you so demeaning to anyone who points out there are other choices besides what you narrowly see and opine like your the gospel according to chatter. We’re all aware of the different turntables on the market, you want me repead it in every post? I prefer Direct Drive over any Belt Drive in the same price category, no doubt. Yes, it’s my opinion. And i hope it does not heart anyone’s feelings. Everything Belt Drive is the same price category is cheap junk compared to vintage Direct Drive turntables, let’s say $1200-2000. I like , own and appreciate all drives for their individual sound and the unique way each approaches the same goals for playback. I currently own an Orbe SE with Graham 2.0 tc arm That’s fine if you have unlimited budget to buy all the turntables (all kinds) and room to place them. This is a typical audiophilia. But you Graham is a copy of the Audio Craft tonearm from the past as far as i know.
I expected that, but as i said this is extremely expensive turntable and only a few people can afford it, not each of us can throw $40k on a belt drive turntable, but with a limited budget DD is a better choice, always. I recently refurbished an SP 10 mkii A and set it in a panzerhotz and carbon plinth with the EPA 100 mkii arm I bought with it. I have a Reed 3p arm to be used on a custom table I am in the middle of building (mass weight heavy plinth and platter belt drive. So please name any Belt Drive than can compete with SP-10mkII within $1200 price tag. I have EPA-100mkII and Reed 3p "12. I use to repair and refurbished many of those Japanese DD tables so it’s a mystery to me why your so thick and quick to defend what you don’t need to. I have no needs to repair any DD, except for the Victor TT-101 (considered one of the best DD ever). And actually this is a benefit of vintage Direct Drive too, they can work for 40 years and you can only replace caps if needed. and add lubricant. And yes i don’t need a turntable musseum in my room, i already have 4 different brands and that’s too much. I NEVER said they were inferior or belts were better....that’s your thing to run others choices down because they don’t match yours and even go off half cocked when no one said your wrong , but desparaging others opinions and choices is not impressive, at all. If you can’t choose then you’re running turntable museum, normal people does not need all those turntables, can you imagine a person with just ONE turntable and limited budget? People like you reminds me a salesman in the shop full of turntables claiming they are all good, well maybe, but a buyer needs just ONE of them, a buyer can’t buy all of them. Then the problem is a choice between one kind or another. I am fully aware of how good many DD tables were in their day and how the value they have can be good IF YOU LIKE THE SOUND OF THEM. The sound is pretty much a cartridge and tonearm, phono stage and speakers. Now you and a few others will tell me i am wrong, some people will tell me the fuse has a sound, but let me ignore it, i am not so crazy yet. In other words i like "the sound" of vintage direct drive turntables, when it comes to the best ones. To some they don’t do it for them , some like a good idler , others a good belted unit for THEIR preference and budget. Not everyone can afford what some of us took a lifetime to build up and enjoy. Everyone on audiogon forum can afford brand new Technics GR instead of some plastic looking cheap Belt Drive at the same price!
These guys are asking for advice here and willing to upgrage their turntables, not me. Most of them never ever heard a good Direct Drive, but were forced to buy cheap belt drive for rediculous price by the dealers and reviewers. Then came you claiming all the turntables are good, no matter belt of direct etc. Not so helpful for guys who needs something better without breaking the bank, they are already victims of propaganda of the digital world. I resume: On the lower budget under $2k direct drive like new Technics GR is always better, some vintage direct drive TT are under $1k + tonearm and plinth, and there is nothing on the belt drive territory that can beat it, really. This is a common sense. P.S. My opinion is irrelevant for an audiophiles with turntable museums in their home, if they can buy all the best turntables at any price then life is good already. |
@chakster Museums are for looking and usually for looking at static objects. My tables are used, as they were designed for and enjoyed as such. Often get sold and different models are refurbished and or rebuilt and enjoyed and the cycle continues. A museum would be for say a pair of older unrestored DD Japanese JVC 101,s sitting unused , underapreciated, and just static weights......or is that mosileum. .....for some it’s one and the same.... but hey critisize the someone putting them back to use and in use for others..the weakest link in your system would appear to be severe ownership bias and a severe case of under appreciation of others preference when indifferent to your own. Japanese DD are not the be all and end all turntables for everyone no matter how many times you post it or how blindly you believe it is or should be everyone’s choice. Many ,like Harold described his time with the Lux 444 feel no emotional involvement to the sound as I did with my 444 decades ago when current. We all don,t hear the same or gravitate to the same tonal playback or listen to the same music, let alone key in on the same frequency or timbre within the music. The difference for some folks preference / hearing for choosing a drive is much like the difference between digital and vynil. One just works better at bringing out the music and drawing them in than the other does. Its a choice, a preference and not yours to demean as a right or wrong thing at all. No one is ever forced to buy anything like you posted above and these guys that post for advice quickly tire of a constant wet blanket of DD is the best your belt is cheap crap etc. etc.etc ... I advocate a choice ...you only advocate your own biased ownership while claiming people are forced to buy what you " hate".....one of the worst things a dealer can do for many is to always run down the other guys products to lift the status of his own....you are doing that almost daily here as a fan boy ...enjoy your vintage DD Japanese tables as many people are and do....just be aware many others have made other choices and while they respect yours....try putting some karma back in the world and try " in kind " over indifference......... Ps...those jvc 101’s in a constrained layered ring as a plinth and wrapped in leather as a finish with function, looks and sounds quite good with a nice vintage arm to finish it off with..... |
Let me put it this way ... my PD444 sounded like hollow... well accuracy if you like. In other words, digital. And actually its seeming dynamics sounded more like just sheer power not real dynamics, e.g. music really, just power. All in all, its sound didn´t manage to move me emotionally, spiritually nor intellectually. Regarding the Harrold's comment it's funny, because i bet he did not mentioned that when he sold his PD-444, it's a double standards as always. In case with his cartridges and turntables we have completely different taste, but i have no idea how analog can sound "digital" when digital simply can't sound "analog". Strange, isn't it ? When one is not happy about the sound coming from spinning platter i would recommend to think about the speakers. Because everything sound dynamic with high efficient speakers, better with full range paper drivers. This is where dynamics really is (imo) ! But when you're guys would like to improve dymanics you are looking at turntable? This is very strange, because speakers are far more important in terms of dynamics (if your cartridge and arm already nice). Different strokes for different folks ... P.S. We have many more users of PD-444 on this forum and they are happy about this turntable for decades. I hope my new Denon DP-80 will impress me as much as the PD-444 |
Me ? I`m just a lawnmover. I focus on real life work today. I´m a working man. Yes it´s true some live in a world of fantasies, and another in a little bubble : ) Tomwh, You can try reasonably priced neodymium magnets from say https://www.hkcm.de/ if you are located in Europe. IME they are very HQ products. There are magnets than can support very heavy platters. Bruce is the true expert here, I´m sure he will enlighten you more. But now I must be on my way ... there´s lots of lawnmoving to do ... |
The Phoenix gear is back ! Now made and sold by SOTA. https://sotaturntables.com/product-category/eclipse-series/ |
