Halcro,
"It raises the performance of the P77 to that of a true contender"
After spending another night with the P77/SAS1, I'm afraid I must take exception to your statement above. It is not just a true contender, but "IT" is what all other cartridges should be shooting for! Bob Graham (Graham tonearms), has found a spare discontinued connector and is now able to build another arm wand (spare #6), for me. When I receive it, I will be mounting the P77 permanently to this new wand. It doesn't get any better than this. It just sound like music! Regards, Don |
Halco,
I just realized I forgot to include the (grin) at he end of my "shooting for" statement. I hope you did not misunderstand my attempt at humor!
Regards, Don |
No problem Don, I got it :-) |
The reason I find it interesting about Professor Timeltel having been rejected for not " having in depth answers" is his answers are always interesting and insightful, while mine, which are drivel go right through.
I think Nandric is correct, in that the people with something to say, are dangerous, for some reason to the totalitarian state. |
Hi Nandric,
"I am not sure if Dgob or Glanz or both caused your aversion against the innocent trade mark 'Glanz' but everyone can check for himself in the Glanz thread and more in particular your 'arguments' based on ear. "
;~)
As always... |
Dear Dgob: What did you mean or try to say to me with your post and that " as always? could you explain it?. Thank's.
Regards and enjoy the music, R. |
Acman3,
When Timeltel posts, everyone pays attention. He truly is is a special person and is sorely miss by several of us. Tom, my next beer is for you!
Regards, Don |
It is not only the Professor (Timeltel) who is a 'watched man'.......Thuchan is also unable to post without a two day 'screening' process. The reasons proferred by A'Gon to these two valuable contributors.....are confusing and irrational. Land of the Free indeed!!!? |
Dear Halcro/friends: All of us are or could be under scrutiny time to time, this is an Agon " policy ".
I just was under moderation, why? who knows.
This is my fouth time under Agon scrutiny and perhaps not the last one.
Regards and enjoy the music, R. |
Dear friends: No doubt, the JVC X-1MK1 is not anymore the second best MM/MI but the third best.
I tested the Astatic MF-2500 and compare it against the MF-200 both JVC X-1s, the ANV, the Precept 440LC and Pioneer PC550 and the MF-2500 outperforms all them in almost any single cartridge performnace characteristics.
IMHO the MF-2500 puts a new standards level. No one of those cartridges can even the MF-2500 frequency extremes performance. The kind of bass management handle by the 2500 is the nearest one I heard on any cartridge to the latest digital experince and at the other frequency extreme the word " definition " took a new dimension. Please name any cartridge characteristic you like and the 2500 has on spare and to spread it. For the first time I really enjoy and give a real value to the cartridge characteristic name it: soundstage and this happened thank's to those both great frequency extreme kind of performance where definition, transparency , endless presentation, reality, dynamics, natural agresiveness and balanced tone along " light speed " on transients gave the cartridge performance a " rythmum to die for " like no other MM/MI transducer.
It is the very first cartridge that runned all and each single Telarc 1812 with out any single distortion: is the one cartridge and only one that can negociate the last cannon shot, it's my first time I heard it in all its glory: really a hard task that through the 2500 " feels " easy as the flow of music with no obstacles.
The MF-2500 was an early model than the MF-200/100 series. Well, all of us read it the review of the MF-200 posted here where said was a tracker winner cartridge but can't even the magnificence of the MF-2500 and this is one of the reasons why the cartridge is so good against any other cartridge MM/MI I know. certainly the best Moving Flux cartridge design, Astatic improved with the 2500 that patented cartridge design.
If you have the Hotel California version I name it somewhere, side two track 2, at the begining of the track we can hear an acoustic guitar at the right speaker side where through the MF-2500 the fingers over the chords you listen as if where " pizzicatos " m like in a violin: I can't hear this definition level in no other cartridge and I can tell you some other examples of its great quality performance level that's so unique.
Maybe you already heard this kind of adjectives/words from my part to other cartridges but with the MF-2500 those words have a new dimension a new up level.
Why Llarashim put on sale this unique really unique performer? is out of my mind because it is not only unique but almost imposible to find out, I never seen on ebay: never a single one.
The line has four models: 2500/01/02/03, all are low inductance design and with lower output that the other Astatic models with 3.0mv as manufacturer spec. The 2500 comes with a line contact stylus shape and runs at 1.5grs on VTF, I mounted in my Grace G-840FB with my especial self design headshell: tremendous cartridge/tonearm match, running with positive VTA/SRA .
I just started my hunting for a second sample ora third if I can get it!!! this is the today real: Holly Grail!!!!, go for it and Grow up.
Regards and enjoy the music, R. |
Dear Dgob, You are blind, deaf and as stupid as your Glanz comrade. Don't you see: our omnipotent orakel can judge not only distortions in Australia from Mexico but also our IQ from a similar distance. Alas my score as well as the other measurements are not mentioned.
As always, |
This is my fouth time under Agon scrutiny and perhaps not the last one. Dear Raul, I can understand the monitoring of you and your posts. You......can offend people :-) But the gentle Professor and Thuchan? Regards |
It has come to my attention that Goldenote (formerly Blurnote) has a new MM cart, the Babele. This replaces an older Babele, a HOMC? Like the CA MM line, this is custom made for Goldenote by AT. The top has threaded inserts for mounting. With an impedance of 470 ohms and an output of 3mV it could be a great cart. That impedance would indicate the use of PCC wire, and like the CA line, would take AT95 type replacement styli. I haven't heard this cart, just a heads up. Regards, |
Dear Halcro, The 'sin' of the gentle Professor and the gentle Thuchan was mentioning of some competitor. If they include in their post any item whatever from the A'gon market I am sure they will pass the censorship.
Regards, |
To add to what Nandric said, it also appears you can write Vinyl Engine and Ebay but do not link to them. |
But what about a whole Thread recently titled......'Audio Karma'? |
There is also an add running with the statement, I will not buy through Audiogon and leaving his Email address to buy offsite.
I don't think they currently read the post, but may monitor links of some people. I saw links to other " competing "websites last night, on this site. |
Ac..."I think Nandric is correct, in that the people with something to say, are dangerous, for some reason to the totalitarian state."
Timeltel's views are an in depth and radical ommission from this thread. As a "watched" man how thick is his FBI file? |
Dear Tubed1, For some inscrutable reasons the communist were scared by writers and philosophers. So they established special assotiations for them with decent monthly salary. I am sure the FBI is not as kind for your writers and philosophers. They probable assume that nobody is reading any writer or philosopher at present. |
Comrade. "They probable assume that nobody is reading any writer or philosopher at present" Moderaters need to understand this is unfortunate for the alleged 4.7 M readers of this thread and A-gon. We are without the impirical data, input and articulation of The Professor. |
Dear Tubed1, Herr Professor wrote to me to be more amused than worried by the moderator. My argument for them both (Thuchan included) was that they write for us and not for the moderator. Not sure about Thuchan but our Professor will be back. The 4 M readers you mentioned I used as an argument in my writing to the moderator. I stated that they should be proud of our thread . Because of the participants and the (number) of the passiv readers. My post was never checked since.
Regards, |
Fleib,
Do I understand you correctly, that this "Babele" is a MC with a removal stylus. And best part of all it takes the (our) AT95 subs? If this is true, I need to put my search engine to work. Regards and thanks, Don |
Fleib,
I see now that it's a MM and replaces the MC. Listening to records and reading sometimes don't mix. Must be a good cartridge mounted!
Regards, Don |
Hi Raul, I'm looking forward to your "revisit" of the PCN-550ML stylus. Similar to the impressions of Acman3, on some LPs I sense slight HF roll-off and less than commanding bass management--which softens dynamics. On other (better recorded) LPs, these minor failings are much less evident. In the latter cases the entire presentation is naturally convincing. This stylus is quite a chameleon--a good thing I think.
BTW, whether this cantilever is alum or beryllium, the 700x photos that I posted on AA don't reveal how unusually narrow the cantilever diameter is for a crimped tube type. |
Don, I haven't heard the new Babele. Like a CA, it's a custom made generator in a 3400 series body. 470 impedance means it should be PCC wire and might outperform the Virtuoso? Regards, |
Dgarrettson, if you get a chance to pick up an Akai RS180 do so. It is a completely different cartridge. Gains in some areas, loses in others. |
Dear Dgarretson: I will do as soon is possible because right now I'm hooked by the glorious Astatic MF-2500.
The high frequency extreme in this cartridge is similar if not even better than the one I heard through the very low output Colibri's I own. The Colibri is the only other cartridge ( along the MC2000 but I don't touch it for many months that I need to be sure about. ) I know with that pure definition and precission in the high end frequency range. Even the X-1MK2 that's very good stays short.
The kind of cartridge quality performance in that range I'm talking about is shared by no other cartridge out there so we are talking of something very especial and unique that if for no other cartridge characteristic that one justify to own that MF-2500.
Maybe the cartridge could be even better because right now I'm listening it with not yet the fine tunning step but its today performance level is so remarkable that even does not ask for a fine tunning!!! Where are all the manufactured/builded MF-2500?, I think that sooner or latter will appears through ebay. We have to stay alert on.
In the other side and because the MF-2500 deserve it I have to test it mounted in my tonearm design where right now is mounted the JVC X-1MK2.
Btw, I will keep the 550 even that LPGEAR give me its RMA. I heard too that high frequency roll-off: did you work " hard " on VTA/SRA to improve in that regards performance?
Regards and enjoy the music, R. |
Fleib,
I just picked up a Clearaudio Maestro for $98 (eBay). Broken stylus but does have the housing. Not sure if it has the screw or not but that is not important because it's easily obtained. The best I have been ably to gather is that our only transplants to this is from the AT95/3400 series which means aluminum cantilevers with best being either a VL tip or a shibata. Do you know of any others options? BTW. $400 to Axel for a beryllium is not one of them. (grin) How about the AT152LP? I do have a spare sitting in a drawer. I could have Andy at NeedleClinic safely do the transfer.
Regards, Don |
Don, There are no other options for a ready made stylus for the 3400 series, except P-mount styli which IMO are superior to 95 replacement needles, but none come with exotic cantilevers. I assume you're getting a version 1 Maestro? Your best bet might be a Soundsmith level 3. When Raul reviewed the Virtuoso he said that the Maestro was a little overdamped. It comes with boron/ML, in which case I don't think beryllium/LC will be an improvement. It will probably be worse in that respect.
Maybe Andy could do the transplant I don't know. The Prof transplanted from a 100 series to a round plug, not a 3400 series. I don't seem to have the agility in my hands that I used to, maybe that's why I broke a couple of those transplants, but there are some nice 100 series carts or even round plug carts that would probably be nice with that stylus. The cu is a lower than a 155LC, more like a modern version. I recently posted that I've had 2 glowing reports of CA rebuilds with ruby cantilevers. SRA might be different and arm height adjustment is required. I would also suggest a slight raising of compliance if you're not using a massive arm. This can be done at time of rebuild.
Version 2 CA have stronger magnets for greater output. It looks to me as if the generators are unchanged. The rest of the specs are almost identical to V1. If you want to try stronger magnets LpGear sells orig 440ML styli for $150. Output was 1mV more than the MLa. This is the magnets, the rest of the specs are identical. Can't say I've tried this or necessarily recommend it, although those magnets could be used for a rebuild. Regards, |
Dave, A clumsy video of an old SHURE VN5MR (Micro-Ridge on beryllium). 2MP quality, sorry can´t make it better Hope this helps. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SsDa85nnhbM Is your PRECEPT really better than your ACUTEX M320 ? |
Hi Fleib,
Thank you for the thoughtful input. It gives me a lot to think about. You mentioned 2 things that I would like you to try and clarify for me.
"slight raising of compliance if you're not using a massive arm. This can be done at time of rebuild."
I use the Graham 2.2 arm which would not be considered a massive arm. To accomplish this raising of compliance at time rebuild, is this done by additional compression of the donut? If not, then how would I do this?
In your discussion on the 440ML,
"although those magnets could be used for a rebuild"
I find that rather interesting. I never thought of doing that but it sort of makes sense! You could put a boron cantilever/ML stylus on those magnets and use that combination on lets say a Signet TK5Ea. Is this what you were thinking with your quote? Not necessarily on a Signet but some round post AT?
Regards, Don |
Fleib,
I meant square post AT, not round post AT! Sorry.
Regards, Don |
Don, In playing around with my Virtuoso I've found that the P-mount stylus seems to track better and sound better than the 95 styli. The cantilevers, although straight, seem thinner and lighter. This means less tip mass and VTF is 1.25 to 1.5g. Compliance isn't as high as the 155LC, more like a modern 150MLX or slightly less. You can try this for little money. Just buy a 92E(CD) on fleabey for $25 and cut away the excess plastic. You'll have a .3 x .7 that I believe will outperform a 95SE (.3 x .7) on a med/light arm. You can buy aftermarket 3472 styli just like the 95 ones, including vivid line, shibata and an ML. Any AT stylus with that unusual plastic carrier will fit a 3400 series body.
I don't think the compliance screw has much to do with compliance. The screw is used to hold the cantilever in place and holding it tighter will make it stiffer? I think compliance is determined by the cantilever itself and the rubber donut. That would be a combination of cantilever weight, rigidity, and damping.
I just got an idea. Maybe I'll transplant the PCN550 to a 3400 series plug and try it on the Virtuoso. After all it's aluminum and maybe I won't break the damn thing. Regards, |
Fleib,
Nikola and myself both like the Akai RS180 (AT14S), better on the Precept than the PCN550. I intend to run my Precept with (as will Nikola), the Akai, therefore your latest ideal sound very interesting. Please keep me/us posted as to the results. Might be better that either the V/L or the shibata on the Virtuoso. Options, that's what I like!
Regards, Don |
Your very welcome Raul, maybe next time when i put something up or talk about something...someone will take me seriously...I have a very good musical IQ(not bragging here just saying)
I have my Fulton cartridges that IMO are better that do "when the sun and the moon line up" things better like real music... but remember my system is basically all Fulton stuff and boy can the Fulton cartridges play very well
but to answer your question yes the MF2500 as i said is in a league all by itself...you wont find anymore very very rare cartridge!!
Lawrence Fidelity_Forward |
Dear Lharasim: +++++ " yes the MF2500 as i said is in a league all by itself...you wont find anymore very very rare cartridge!! " ++++
no doubt, is my today reference. Whom/which next: could exist that next to MF-2500?, seems to me that with this Astatic cartridge we can say for " sure " that we achieve the " last analog MM/MI frontier "!!!!!!!
The differences for the better against the JVC X-1MK2 are not tiny ones.
Thank you to brought this cartridge/" lose link" to us.
Thank's again and enjoy those Fulton: I know very well what you are talking about. I wish some of the persons here that still like the LOMC could hear the Fulton sound.
Regards and enjoy the music, R. |
Dear friends: As good the Astatic MF-100 or MF-200 are Astatic made " something " a little different with the early MF-2500 that does not repeated with its newest cartridge models and I wonder why.
Why instead to go up the " newest " cartridges goes down on its quality performance level????, could be that they were not aware of the 2500 high quality performance level?, this can be an answer butit does not makes me " click " in my mind.
What all of you think about?, some one can enlight us?
Regards and enjoy the music, R. |
Raul,
I for one, had no ideal what the potential some of the cartridges that are from our past actually was capable of. State of the art back then was far different than it is today. A lot of the cartridges that are currently in my arsenal,I owned back when they were new. Every piece of equipment has improved throughout the entire audio chain. This accumulation of improvements, some even small, contribute to the overall improvement in what is extracted out of our old treasured phono cartridges. This fact might explain why I have so many cartridges now and am so reluctant to sell any of them. Who knows what might be just around the bend that will raise the lowly phono cartridge to new heights. I think we need to look at our entire audio system and think of it as apples on a tree. The first apple to ripen was the cartridge. |
Dear Griffithds: I agree, our today system improved a lot but the subject is that Astatic modified " something " in their newest MF-100/200 that IMHO were in detriment of these cartridges quality level performance against its " old " 2500 brother and that " degradation " was not a tiny one as I already posted.
Subject is: WHY that happened, What could heppened there?
Regards and enjoy the music, R. |
Raul,
My point was perhaps even they didn't know what the had. They altered the MF-100/200 to improve the Astatic for what state of the art equipment they had back then. Perhaps, the "old" 2500 was inferior to the MF-100/200 in "that" period gear and its revelations are only revealed through our new/better/improved state of the art equipment!
Regards, Don |
Don, I believe your point applies equally to many of the LPs produced in the '50s and '60s and even the '70s. Those of us old enough to have heard them new had no idea of the detail and nuance they contained at that time.
Good thing now all of us gave up on vinyl! |
Measured the resistance of the Precept cartridge and it measured 462 ohms, which is close to the 500 ohm spec. of the Audio Technica 15/20 series. More reason the Atn 20ss stylus should work on precept cartridge.
After resetting up the Atn 20ss stylus on the Precept body, I can now not get distortion with massed strings and guitars. I don't know what has changed, but as of right now, it is working fine. |
Acman3,
So you are going to make me remount my 20SLa on the Precept! What do you mean that "now it is working fine"? Does it now sound like a 20SS cartridge? If you don't mind me asking, what are your settings? Cap.setting, VTA, T/Force. I'm not questioning you in any way, I just want to make sure I haven't missed something when I remount the 20SLa. Regards, Don |
Don, sounds fine was saying, no distortion, only. I tried all the records which caused the failure last week. No problems? Possibly a loose wire. I checked them, but something is different.
I will be installing the At 20 ss cartridge in the next few days, but would suspect the Precept with 20ss will be similar, but who knows. I have been running a heavy 1.6 grams Vtf, but have not maximized anything. VTA is level or it gets bright quick. Loading is silver phono cables direct to preamp only, so 100-150.
I am fine with any questions you have. Just wanted you and others to know it would work. Make any changes as you see fit.
Is the 20sla beryllium? |
Glad some of you are happy with using modern gear with our favorite mm/mi cartridges. In my case at least the modern gear I went through could not deliver the music like the vintage gear I'm now using. This quote says it all. The music comes through sounding more alive, spacious, detailed, and present. Don't count out the equiptment from the hay day of tubed gear trust me on that. It goes so well with our vintage cartridges.
Andy will be getting my latest for refresh and inspection. |
Acman3,
"Is the 20SLa beryllium"?
For the life of me, I'm not sure? To look at the "20" line you would think so! The 20SL is. The 20SS is. Why wouldn't the 20SLa be? But I can not find anything that would diffidently state that this is true. I've asked on this forum but got no reply. BTW, thanks for "your" reply on the setup information. That brightness is what I experienced with the 20SLa installed in the Precept. Perhaps I need to pay more attention and time to its set up next go around! Regards |
Grirffithds, Wualta already quoted the resistance and inductance as both being under 500.;) |
Acman3
Would that be a "backdoor" yes? |
Don, All the ATN20_ styli are beryllium.
I bought an AT12E body (4.2mV, 1200 ohm) back when Prof an I were trying to figure out Precept equivalent. I trimmed the plastic further on the PCN550 and fit it on the 12. It seems like a good match for the higher inductance/resistance body. I think that using it on the CA might be a waste of time, although I haven't tried it. The CA, like other high end ATs, needs an exotic stylus IMO. The PCN550 sounds more like an ATN440ML to me - more live sounding, but w/o the finesse of an exotic cantilever. I heard that as soon as I started using it on the 15S. The old 1200 ohm AT12/13E seem sweeter than the newer 440/120 or even the 150 bodies which have much higher impedance. The AT12S(a) bodies were prob made for 4-ch and have 500 ohm impedance with 2.7mV. The 12S has a bonded shibata w/straight alum cantilever and I suspect sounds similar to these supposed PCN550.
If you cross a race horse with a donkey you'll get a mule, not a triple crown winner, although mules are useful animals. Regards, |
Aceman3, Thanks for confirming Wualta's measurements. Apparently the PC110 is different. Specs are similar to the 12/13E. Regards, |