Hi Nandric, A 980 and a 981 are the same cartridge. A 981 is a 980 with a factory matched stylus.
Anyone can see the MM specs for themselves at the CA web site. They all have 660 ohms impedance and 420mH inductance. If you check other AT you'll see variations depending on output, coil windings etc. www.clearaudio.de/_en/Tonabnehmer.php
Lew, The LpGear stylus is a bonded shibata made by Jico. It's pretty good. I also have a Pickering D3001, it's a .2 x .7 nude elliptical.
Raul, Perhaps you would change your mind about preferring the HO version, now that you've upgraded your high gain stage. Regards, |
Dear Raul, As to your post about the absolute judgement of cartridges vis a vis the real sound of music, my opinion is "yes and no". As you say, it is a very complex subject. It would be easy if there were one cartridge that could be taken as "the standard" or "the truth" (great name for a cartridge, by the way). Then we could judge others against it. As it stands, we are left to compare each individual cartridge to our imagination of the real thing. That gets messy. But you and I often have gently disagreed in this area, where I am a nihilist, and you are an optimist. I think if I were to play more classical music played in large concert halls, that would be a better way to get at your idea of choosing reality.
Thanks for the URL to find Alex. I understand that he can supply many different cantilever materials. Can he also supply many different stylus shapes, e.g., micro-ridge, shibata and variants thereof, etc? |
Dear Lew, Alex is not complete nor clear about his styli and cantilevers. Those are mentioned styli with aluminum cantilever: 1.spherical 89 Euro 2.elliptical 99 E. 3.nude line 159 E. 4.rebuild Shibata 179 E. 5.original Shibata 265 E.
Other styli on request. No 'exotic cantilevers' are mentioned but he does repaer all B&O carts. So I assume that he can provide sapphire cantilevers. I can of course ask him whatever our members are interested in.
Regards, |
A small comment with regards to an Aurum Classic upgraded with Boron cantilever, etc... vs the Virtuoso.
I have no idea how the CA's are tuned, and whether they are tuned similarly, however...
I have 3 Jico SAS styli, same manufacturer, 3 slightly different models (V15VMR, V15VxMR, M97xE)... Mechanically they appear identical, but an analysis of their response shows that they have differing resonance profiles.
What I am trying to say is that just because the cantilever is identical does not necessarily make it sound the same - the resonance substantially contributes to the sound of a stylus, and that resonance can be altered and tuned by adjusting the damping/suspension.
So the exercise would no doubt be interesting - but it will not necessarily be identical to an original CA cartridge. It may be, but it is more likely that it will produce an excellent but slightly different cartridge.
As a further aside, the "ultimate" cantilevers by both Shure and Technics were hollow... and Technics was quite keen on trumpeting that their hollow boron cantilevers were superior to the equivalent made of diamond or ruby/Sapphire.
To the best of my knowledge no one is making hollow exotic cantilevers (boron, beryllium, diamond, Ruby/Sapphire) any more.... or have I missed a vendor somewhere?
bye for now
David |
Dear David, I should add that according to Fleib only the styli are different by Clearaudio MM carts. So qua logic one may assume that the cheapest version (aka the Classic) has ,uh, the cheapest stylus. At this point, so to speak, my 'splandid idea' arose. Clearaudio is manupulating with styli or prices and I (with Raul as a possible accomplice) will try to outsmart Clearaudio. With, say, 170 Euro for the boron cantilever + line contact stylus we will have the Clearaudio equivalent of 800 Euro. The only thing that I am not able to 'grasp' is the circumstance that Raul will get 19% discount (VAT tax) because he lives in Mexico and not in Europe.
Regards, |
Just purchased an Acutex 420 only to be notified by the seller in Italy that the cartridge in the box was not a 420. What a disappointment. |
Hi Nandric, Dlaloum, I just re-checked the specs at CA web site. They are all identical except for the Classic. They have that listed as 3.3mV out, rather than 3.6mV. I think it's a typo because all the other specs are the same. I doubt if they would put weaker magnets in the Classic. I can't guarantee there are no internal differences other than the generators, but why would there be? It's obvious (to me) that AT makes these for CA, probably in bulk, in a 3400 series body, with a 3400 series stylus and plug. Also, they all have the same length cantilever and cu.
CA probably tests these and sorts them out according to tolerance. My Virtuoso has 1 ohm difference of DC resistance between channels. Lower priced models might have worse tolerances. I guess that would be the biggest difference. It could be much more than the difference between an AT-15 and 20.
We're not talking about 3 different cartridges with different stylus/cantilevers, and cu. Because the stylus is replaceable, like any AT, a Maestro stylus could be tried on another CA model. Regards, |
Dear Nandric: ++++ " I am sure that you remember what J. Carr stated about ruby or sapphire (the same 'stuff') cantilever. He does not like those. " +++++
certainly I have not the knowledge J.Carr level on that regard. I have good experiences with ruby/sapphire cantilever build material: I like a lot the MMC2/1 B&O cartridges ( great performers. ), I like the Grace Ruby as the ADC Astrion and even that I don't hear for a lot of time I like the Sao Win ( MC. ). All these cartridges comes with that kind of cantilever build material.
Maybe the ruby/sapphire material can't fulfill what J.Carr targets are but IMHO I think that the overall cartridge design and execution are the main subjects other than cantilever build material.
I think that the cartridge design is something like the TT design: BD or DD, well the ones that thinked that the only way is to go for BD today knows that is not true they know that the DD is a " terrific " alternative that even outperforms the BD ones.
The AT 50 aniversary cartridge " moves " me to thik on the ruby/sapphire material not only for the CA ( that's an AT design. ) but for some other cartridges too.
I'm not against your boron alternative as a fact I like it ( I'm not sure if trhough the Aurum one. ), my second sample on the Acutex LPM315IIISTR has a boron cantilever with VdH stylus and outperform the original one. One of my Sonus Dimension 5 came from VdH " refresh " and outperforms the original too.
AT had good reasons to choose sapphire. Of course that the 50 anniversary is not the AT/CA design.
Anyway, this subject is a little complex and for my part I have to think again what to do or do anything.
Regards and enjoy the music, R. |
Hello Rnadell, Sorry to hear you were unable to get a Acutex 420 from Italy. Someone will be selling theirs on Audiogon or Ebay in the future though, so keep your eyes open.
Good Luck Danny |
Dear Rich (Rnadell), Please tell us what WAS inside your box that was supposed to be a 420. And what excuse did you get from the vendor, and what is he going to do about what should be HIS problem, not yours? |
HI Lewm and Rnadell,
I have been kinda watching the Italian ebay site (Acutex listing), and noticed something odd. He had a 420 on the bidding site concurently with a buy it now offering. I was watching the bidding one, and had planned on bidding if the price/bids remained low. It suddenly disappeared from the site. It had to have been pulled and the bidding canceled! He just may have had more than one mispackaged. Concidering he didn't have a replacement, our happy days just might have ended. |
Rnadell,
I have been looking for a location world wide that has a replacement stylus for a Acutex 420. I have a 2nd cartridge on its way to me right now. I bought it for its stylus only. If I find a stylus somewhere for this cartridge, I will sell you the Acutex (new), for my purchase price. It should be the same as what you paid for the misidentified one on the Italian web site. Regards, Don Griffith |
happens to me the same, this is what they mentioned in their email:
Good morning, we had a problem on the product because the box that was supposed to contain the stylus Acutex 420 STR, contains the model415 STR, we can make the reversal complete your purchase, or cancel ?. 15.00 and send you the model Acutex STR 415, what do you prefer? apologize for the error and remain at your disposal Yours sincerely The Staff
EBUSINESSPOINT
Puntina Acutex M 415 STR
? Colore Grigio Blu Modello M415 STR ? Risposta 20-40 KHz. ? 32 dB a 1 KHz. ? 28 dB a 10 KHz. ? 3,5 mV a 1KHz. (5cm/sec) con 1dB a 1KHz. ? 710 ohm ? 47 Kohm ? 36 x 10 -6 cm/dyne 1.0 - 2.0 g. ? 4,0 g. ? 29 x 18 x 16 mm 12,7 mm (1/2 ") |
I got the same email from the Italian seller right box wrong cartridge. They are asking my to pay 15 dollars more for a 415str. I guess i should feel lucky i was able to get one 420str before this debacle. to bad should have bought 2 to begin with at that price. |
I'm I understanding this correctly. The seller wants $15 more for the #2 cartridge to replace the #1 cartridge that they don't have? He should be refunding you money with the 415STR. I have one still in transit comming. I wonder which one it will be?
Regards, Don |
You guys scared me into checking the contents of the box that came to me from Italy. Fortunately for me, I seem to have gotten a bona fide 420. One wonders how an NOS 415 (or 412?) crawled into an NOS container for a 420, if I understand the situation correctly. Based on Raul's and Timeltel's opinions, the 415 would not be far behind, if at all behind, the 420 in terms of performance, assuming one can extrapolate from the 315 reviews. |
From my own experience selling items it seems like they would have checked the contents before listing it. Seems suspicious to me. With that said I would have not purchased the cartridge were it not for feedback from the group. A new wonderful cartridge will show up, it's not the end of the world. |
If the body of your 420STR is grey then it is the correct model: body colours being the easiest way to distinguish. |
I need to express my (our) gratitude to Fleib and Dlaloum for their important contributions to this thread. As members we get a much better understanding about MM carts in general and the cantilevers/styli in particular. We get a kind of 'knowledge advantage' in comparison with those who are not members of our forum. I already made 'profit' in both senses of the expression (knowledge and money) thanks to their contribution. My Virtuoso (black) I got for 50 Euro at the German ebay (no other bidders)and I was able to order exactly the right parts for the retip by Alex. Only a month before I was totally ignorant about all the intricacy involved by cantilever/ styli combos.
Regards,
|
I looked at my 420str and it seems to be correct grey and black according to the supplied manual. On the cartridge it self the only script is Acutex on one side of the grey colored plastic and LPM on the other side. |
I only inspected my 412 boxes in order to see if there are some 420 carts in there. Alas. The Italian may look confused but an error at their own cost is to optimistic qua expectation. So I need some kind of accumulation of the bravery to inspect the 420 boxes. Anyway this 'Italian proposition' seems to be over. I am alas on non speaking terms with this guy Branko Polak who listed so many on Audiogon market. Otherwise I would like to ask him how many he bought in Italy.
Regards, |
Does anyone know if the 412 and the 420 have the exact same body? |
Headsnappin, According to me they have the same 'corpus' (grey) but different styli: red for the 412 and black for the 420.
Regards, |
Dear friends: I hope that mine be the 420, I don't receive it yet but I think at the end of this week could arrive along the LPM320IIISTR sample.
Regards and enjoy the music, R. |
Dear Lewm and friends: +++++ " As to your post about the absolute judgement of cartridges vis a vis the real sound of music, my opinion is "yes and no". As you say, it is a very complex subject.......................... As it stands, we are left to compare each individual cartridge to our imagination of the real thing " +++++
as I posted we need a reference/standards to compare. For the persons that attends regulary to hear live music that reference is live music. If we don't attend to hear live music then we are at " random " and what we like is only that " what we like " but with not very strong " foundation ".
The next opinion ( that in some way confirm what I posted here and several times in other threads. At least one person where I coincide. ) came from the Talea tonearm designer/manufacturer whom is: musician, recording engineering, audiophile and audio item designer:
+++++ " But this also touches another important aspect that’s harder to talk about. When do we know that something sounds good? Basically, if you have enough experience listening to live music, you know what an instrument sounds like. That’s the “good” sound, the reference. It’s not about whether you like it to sound one way or another, it’s just a reality. I am aware that, for some people, the experience of listening to music can have more to do with creating a specific atmosphere than searching for realism. They might like to have the sound be more mellow, or have more excitement, perhaps a stronger bass component, or a bit of brightness; that’s a completely legitimate goal of course. That sound however can’t be said to be “better” than one provided by a more realistic rendition. Nowadays, most people are looking for the most holographic, life-like representation of reality (and not just in sound). If that’s indeed what you like, realistic reproduction is the goal. If you want to feel that you’re in the jazz club with the musicians, that reality is your reference. More generally, if you have somebody play an instrument for you, then listen to the same instrument on a recording, you should be able to tell whether the recording is close to the real thing or not. It doesn’t matter whether you like the reproduced sound better for whatever reason; it’s either closer to reality or not. " +++++
Lew, you said that you and me always disagree in this whole subject. Please let me know what is wrong for you or why you don't agree with that overall opinion I posted and where I'm in agreement. Of course any one of you are welcomed to participate in this " critical " subject.
Regrads and enjoy the music, R. |
Hi Headsnappin,
The way the Acutex manual reads, it lead me to believe that the entire line of LPM cartridges have the same body, just different or should I say higher levels of quality styluses. The stated output is down slightly on the 420 vs. the others in the line. 3.5 on all but the 420 which states its 3.2. I think this is a typing error. There are other typing errors in the manual. The specification page states the stylus case for the 420 is black. It is black but page 7 says it gray. Anyway, just my opinion and I'm sticking to it!
Regards, Don |
Thanks much Nandric and Griffithsds, I have both but wondered if I needed to bother switching bodies as the 412 "body" is mounted. The 420 stylus still seems like it needs a touch more break in. |
There is much merit in what you and Durand say. For what it's worth, I attend live performances at least twice a month, mostly jazz, either in night clubs or at the Kennedy Center in DC. The Terrace Theater at the KC has some of the best acoustics I know about, and if you want to hear clean real music, it's the best in DC, IMO. In other live venues (e.g., noisy and poorly miked jazz clubs or when I happen to have a bad seat or when the sound amplification system is a disaster), the sound is not always so great, nor do I want to reproduce it on my home system. I also sing once a week with a professional jazz pianist at a jazz vocal workshop, where i am standing right next to the full-size grand piano (not a keyboard), so I certainly know what piano can sound like. Yes, I seek all the qualities of live music in my home system. (What else would any self-respecting audiophile say?) But there are always variables we cannot control or choose, such as quality of the recording, record wear on used LPs, etc, etc. In my opinion, because of such issues, compounded by what actually happens at recording venues, there is an element of serendipity involved in the creation of a "real" sense of live music in my living room. These factors that can't be known to me leave room for falling in love with alternate visions of reality. |
Folks the thing about this passion i have for bright lively sounds from my system is so elusive. No doubt for me vinyl is the front end that is the winner for the sound i love and have been chasing for a long time. What seems to happen is i have it and then its gone. Lately Ive been able to devote more time to tweaking and listening. What i'm hearing at this time is as Raul puts it a very nice 3d wide open stage. I just replaced my volume control it has dropped the noise floor a ton and is bringing the music from a super dark background. I dont know whats going to be the next revelation for better sound and i'm sure its out there. Moving Magnet cartridges in my opinion are a big factor in lively clear sound also. To get my favorite music to sound like a live concert is tough for the main reason of saving my ears. Classic rock and blues concerts are 100db plus but in the 90 to 100 db range at the house for now live concert lps sure sound real nice. And on it goes fantastic hobby. |
For the last 10 years I have been bothered by the 'distortions' I was perceiving with low compliance LOMC cartridges on heavily modulated grooves especially in the upper frequencies. When I returned to high compliance MM cartridges due to this thread of Raul's.....There was a heavenly freedom from these particular distortions which lead me to believe that MM cartridges were inherently better and more 'linear' than LOMCs? And I now have a collection of over 20 of the most marvellous cartridges....most of them MMs. With the insertion of the Victor TT-81 direct drive turntable and recently the supreme TT-101...... I have discovered that what I thought of, as 'LOMC distortion' on highly modulated vinyl grooves.......was nothing more than 'stylus drag'? With the recently purchased Sutherland Timeline laser weight available for $400 from Elusive Disc......one can clearly see the effects of 'stylus drag' on heavily modulated vinyl grooves. Reading what happens to the stylus as it hits these grooves almost at right angles to the direction of travel.......I thought to myself, that high-compliance cantilevers would 'bend' more easily and navigate the change of direction whereas low-compliance cantilevers would stubbornly keep trying to force their way 'through' the groove and thus slow down more? With a superb DD turntable which is quartz-locked and servo-controlled and is able to micro-adjust speed in a forward and backward direction......the problems of stylus drag disappear. And this is exactly what has happened. There is zero stylus drag with the Victor TT-101 even with the most heavily modulated passages (as clearly shown on the Timeline).....and now....when I play any of my LOMC low-compliance cartridges......I hear absolutely no high frequency distortion anymore. I am now listening to these cartridges (FR-7f, DV-1s, Universe) on the TT-101 with new respect for the qualities of LOMCs. May I return to the 'dark side' :^) |
Dear Henry, Why do you think absolute stable speed is more of a factor with MC cartridges than with MM ones? Unless your MCs are mistracking, it should make no difference. And mistracking would have little to do with speed stability, so I am puzzled. The only other way I can think of it is maybe there may be more stylus drag with some MCs vs some MMs, because of the shapes of the styli, perhaps? |
Hi Lew, It's not the MCs per se which are causing more stylus drag.....but any low compliance cartridge. My theory being that the low compliance does not allow the cantilever to 'bend' easily around the groove 'barrier' whereas the high compliance bends more readily thus avoiding the 'drag' process more readily? However......as LOMCs are generally low compliance and MMs high......the effects are heard with the MCs most people are using? YMMV of course :^) |
Seems to me that what you are saying is that higher VTF (lower compliance) involves greater friction and therefore greater resistance to motion....
Which makes sense...
The interesting corollary that you bring up, is that a TT designed for higher stylus friction needs to have either hugely greater inertia, or ultra precise platter control so as to overcome the additional drag (one way or the other!)
Given that both methods of "drag" mitigation are expensive to achieve.... the High Compliance / Low VTF approach becomes the best value method of achieving the engineering goal. (high tracking ability... no drag impact)
Which naturally leads us back to the theme of this thread.
It appears that not only are the cartridges/styli better value for money, but the Turntables & Arms may be as well.
With manufacturers relaunching their MM ranges.... Ortofon 2M Black AT150ANV CA Virtuoso/Maestro
perhaps the other giants will come back to the game : Shure & Stanton
A new generation V15 or ML140... 881S...
Seems to me there is room between the M97xE at $80 and the AT150ANV at $770 for a whole range of HE and MR cartridges from Shure, and Stereohedrons from Stanton/Pickering...
bye for now
David |
Will someone care to explain why those low compliance carts are produced at all? There must be some reason I assume?
Regards, |
eni Handric,
+++Will someone care to explain why those low compliance carts are produced at all? There must be some reason I assume?+++
One word answer. GREED. Why build low price, high compliance (MM/MI)cartridges, when the press (because of ad revenue), has convinced us that the low compliance (MC), high price cartridges is the answer to all things analog. The best MM's sell for hundreds, the best MC's sell for 10's of thousands. |
Since experiencing the sonic quality DD and rim-drive tables within the past couple of years, I've accepted statements about the importance of (minimizing) stylus drag and constant platter rotation. Earlier this year Michael Fremer made an interesting statement in a cartridge review in Stereophile that seems to address this issue.
"Magnet-based cartridges, MM or MC, are devices that are sensitive to velocity, which is measured as distance over time"
No wonder accurate and constant speed of the stylus tracing the groove is so important to our listening perceptions. |
Maybe we should talk about friction rather than stylus drag. A cart on a linear arm has no stylus drag, but there is still friction. Stylus drag is caused by the difference in offset angle of the cart compared to a line from tip to pivot.
That quote from Fremer was about conventional vs strain gauge carts? All carts are sensitive to velocity regardless of design. The quote was out of context and probably about the moving mass. In a MC design, because coil vibrations and stability are of primary concern, those parameters become more important. They are usually better served by more mass and moderate compliance. Regards, |
Nandric, clearly you have not been drinking enough of the cool aid regarding the LOMC cartridge. Consider the pathos and suffering of those who have. Manufacturer: if we build this highly priced LOMC they will buy it (the fools!!!) Why will they buy it, you may ask? Because it is newer & has 5Mhz higher attentuation than the last years release. |
Dear Fleib, It is not friction which is causing 'stylus drag' but groove modulation. Here is an excerpt from an article by Peter Moncreif published in the IAR Automodulation Distortion
The turntable designer might instead try to deliberately use a very weak motor, with very weak kicks. But that still doesn't solve the above compromise dilemma (he'd still have to move to a lighter platter, if he wants reasonable startup times). And it also creates a new problem, relating to automodulation distortion. What's this new distortion? Turntables get slowed down by outside forces, such as the drag of the stylus in the groove. This drag changes as the groove angle changes with large amplitude music signals. The more that the stylus is yanked side to side by a larger groove excursion representing a louder music signal or transient, the more its passage is impeded in the direction along the linear vector of the groove travel representing the time axis. What's doing the impeding? The turntable is moving the groove under the stylus in a linear direction along the time axis. If there's zero music signal amplitude, the groove is relatively straight, and the groove walls are parallel to this direction of travel, and so these groove walls offer minimal resistance to the stylus gliding past them. But when there's large signal amplitude, then the groove swings wildly from side to side, so the groove walls are more nearly perpendicular to the ultimate direction of the stylus' travel, which is the time axis direction. Thus, the stylus slams into the nearly perpendicular groove wall, which naturally offers more impediment to its travel in the time axis direction. Think of it as the difference between gliding along on an ice rink, parallel to its surface, versus slamming into an ice wall perpendicular to your direction of travel. Pretty dramatic difference, right? What happens when the stylus slams into the groove wall? Who gives way? Well, the stylus might be smaller than the groove wall, but he's a sturdy little bugger, being made of diamond and being anchored firmly to the pickup arm fixed on the plinth. So he hardly budges longitudinally, in the time axis direction (although he's free to swing from side to side, to track groove modulations). Instead, it's the groove wall that yields. Its soft vinyl gets momentarily deformed. As the compressed vinyl reacts to and springs back from this deformation, some of the energy gets transformed into heat, while another part causes the groove wall to partially shudder to a stop, i.e. to slow down. Thus, the groove wall slamming into the immovable stylus, at a nearly perpendicular angle to the groove's time axis motion, causes the groove wall itself to recoil from this collision and slow down in its motion along the time axis direction. When the groove slows down, of course the whole record slows down and the whole turntable platter slows down. In sum, when the music gets loud, the larger side to side groove modulations become more nearly perpendicular to the stylus' steady travel along the time axis direction of the groove. The groove wall has acquired a vector component that effectively collides with the stylus, instead of gliding along parallel to it. Along this time axis direction, the stylus position is fixed, so it is the groove wall that loses in this collision, and the groove (hence turntable) slows down in the time axis direction. This means, quite simply, that loud music slows down your turntable. If you'd like to read the whole article, there is a link on my Systems Page. Regards Henry |
Thanks to this thread which I have followed with interest for almost a year I bought my first vintage mm the acutex 420. Well I actually got 2 because they seemed like a great buy. So I have ended up with a 420 & 415. I have just mounted the 420 and played Dire Straits love over gold and I am very impressed to say the least. I am looking forward lots of listening pleasure with this gem. |
Hi Henry,
went looking for the link but could not find it.... some assistance?
The speed/drag issue is interesting. The fact that there is such an influence is undoubted, the question remains HOW MUCH of an influence, and where does it sit within the scope of audibility/psycho acoustics? And what are known valid solutions that move the effect on a turntable down below the threshold of perception?
You mentioned that your TT101 achieved a noticeable improvement most likely due to handling this phenomenon more effectively.
But this type of technology was used in many subsequent more economical Victor/JVC DD's - so is it the double quartz lock tech... or something else about the engineering of the table?
Getting back to our MM topic - the higher the VTF the higher the friction and drag will be. So presumably, a TT capable of providing superb speed stability with a high compliance low VTF design, might not do so well with low compliance high VTF cartridge design. Although one would expect that one that does well with high VTF designs will be fine with low VTF ones.
How does one quantify this !?! ie: how does one identify a particular TT's parameters and capabilities. Clearly the W&F specs are far too crude to give any true indication? (or are they?)
On your TT101 where you claimed to notice a definite improvement over the TT80 - were you using a high compliance low VTF cartridge, or one of those evil high vtf MC devices... And have you compared the delta improvement between the two types?
Up to now I have placed the "turntable speed control" aspects in the unknown basket... for future investigation - but this might be an opportune time to open the topic up.
Also with these great classic drives (TT101, SP10, others) reaching the stage where parts are no longer available (electronics/specialised chips), what alternatives do we have that achieve this goal... preferably without selling our firstborn.... Is this where the Technics SL1200's with max mods come in?
Seems to me that it is likely that our favoured high compliance MM's may in fact be even more of a bargain than we realise. If they require less of the TT drive for optimum sound, then we get the best result out of a more economical system... the saving may not be limited to only the cartridge.
The decamegabuck+ tables may be at least partly a solution to a problem that does not exist with our MM's.
(or I may have had too much Grand Marnier with my coffee and chocolate brownies at dinner...)
bye for now
David |
Halcro,
Great article. Thank you for the reprint. It's a wonder that actual music comes out of the end train wreck. Just amazing to say the least! |
Hi Henry, I think it's just a definition of terms that we're talking about here. I'm not sure how inclusive the term 'stylus drag' is. Maybe it would include automodulation, or the motions of the stylus as described above. I'm not positive about this or know if there is common agreement. You might be right. I took a quick look at your system - very nice indeed. Regards, |
Hello Dyna10x, Great to know you are enjoying the Acutex 420. It seemed to improve til about 20 hrs on my system.
I am curious about the 415 so whenever you get around to it, please give us your impressions. I seem to remember Timeltel saying he was not impressed by it, which surprised me,since the 315 was so good. Maybe just a different sample as these cartridges are so old now.
Danny
|
Dear Halcro: Of coursed that's groove modulation but the in between stylus tip and groove modulation makes " friction " because are in touch: no friction no drag and no music.
Now, I think I already posted somewhere my next experiences on something related with that subject:
for other reasons I had to make some tests with different cartridges consisting to find out how many seconds ( sg. ) delay the TT to stop while a cartridge was still in the LP grooves. I have somewhere all those tests where I used MM and MC cartridges some with similar VTF and all with different compliance , suspension type and stylus tip.
I remember that even cartridges with similar VTF and near compliance but with different stylus tip shape stopped at different time. I can't remember ( I have to look for the tests. ) if line contact or spheric or ellipthical stopped before than the others but I'm sure that there was a " trend " on the stylus tip shape subject about.
I made those extensive tests taking in count the same LP tracks ( I used two-tree LPs with 6-7 tracks at different distance from the TT spindle.
What I'm trying to say with that is that the stylus tip shape and self cartridge tracking abilities maybe/seems to me have a main influence in this whole drag/friction TT speed changes subject.
Regards and enjoy the music, R. |
What I'm trying to say with that is that the stylus tip shape and self cartridge tracking abilities maybe/seems to me have a main influence in this whole drag/friction TT speed changes subject other that a not so good TT overall design on this specific regards.
R. |
Dear Henry, Groove modulations increase friction, so they are in that sense one and the same. Further, i think you hit on something with your low compliance v high compliance post. If we say that on average low compliance cartridges do not track as well as high compliance ones, then it does stand to reason that mistracking is happening because of the lesser capability of the low compliance cartridge to negotiate the groove modulations. This also results in an increase in friction, as the stylus is yanked to and fro whilst traversing the groove. The worst case scenario is when the stylus is tossed completely out of the groove momentarily, which we hear as "mistracking". So I can believe that there may be more stylus drag (friction) with low compliance cartridges. (Define friction as all forces acting opposite to the vector of the torque of the turntable, and I think you will see that groove modulations are another source of friction, not the only source but an important one. Witness what you have already observed.) |
Hi David, Here is the link to the full Peter Moncreif article HEREI hope you appreciate it as much as I do? On the question of DD turntables.......I don't believe they are all created equal and are thus a panacea for the problems of 'stylus drag'? As I reported....there was a clearly audible difference when I inserted the Victor TT-101 in my system in place of the Victor TT-81. Now everything about these turntables is identical except for the coreless DC motor in the 101 and the dual quartz locked positive and negative servo control. I am thus ready to conclude that these two differences.......aimed solely at maintaining constant speed control........are responsible for the improvements I immediately heard? And yes.......whilst I heard both low-compliance and high-compliance cartridges with the TT-81, the greatest improvement over the performance of the Raven with low-compliance cartridges......was with the TT-101. Seems to me that it is likely that our favoured high compliance MM's may in fact be even more of a bargain than we realise. If they require less of the TT drive for optimum sound, then we get the best result out of a more economical system... the saving may not be limited to only the cartridge. I think there is more truth to your statement than we might realise? Regards Henry |
Griffithds, That article was like a thunderbolt to me when I read it. Glad you also appreciated it?
Thanks Fleib for the compliment. Your thoughts on cartridges, together with David's.......have been invaluable to me.
Dear Lew, Well said. I believe Raul stated that it was his high-compliance Technics EPC100Mk4 which was able to successfully track the cannon shots on the Telarc 1812 Overture? It would be interesting to know if any low-compliance cartridge has ever achieved that feat? |
Dear Halcro: No one can do it, at least the ones I try with.
Btw, it is not only the high compliance subject the one that helps to cartridge tracking abilities but the whole suspension system including stylus tip but certainly low compliance MC has no this ability to negociate the 1812.
Regards and enjoy the music, R. |