I would guess it is the silicone based mold release agent.
Many of those products made by the 2 domestic suppliers at that time, Dow Corning and General Electric, turn white in aqueous solutions.
Silicone is very difficult to remove in one cleaning anyway and, depending on the amount used, it could be the culprit here. |
Agree with AudioFeil, I had the same problem and I believe that's what it is too. I found the perfect cure, an LP cleaner called Premier'. It's formulated to do the same job as the old Freon based formula but safe for the Ozone layer (and EPA approved for use around humans). Below is a link to it at Music Direct. I'm sure there are other vendors with it as well. I just bought several cases of it (48 cans) from the local Dupont distributor, I was so impressed with it. http://www.musicdirect.com/product/73874 |
I've not used the product Albert mentions but it makes sense.
Most products from major chemical groupings, i.e. aromatic, aliphatic, ester, ketone, and alcohols will either leave a residue, be too aggressive for the vinyl, or not be aggressive enough to remove the silicone.
That leaves halogenated solvents which are derivatives of bromine, chlorine, flourine, etc. These are non-residue, quick evaporating, aggressive solvents that for the most part will not attack vinyl. Freon is not a chemical simply Dupont's trade name for a line of halogenated chemicals. They are useful as cleaning solutions in their two forms which are liquids at room temperature/pressure and refrigerants as gases under high pressure.
The original formulas have been modified with hydrocarbons so as to be more environmentally friendly.
I'd take a serious look at Albert's recommendation as the typical surfactant/enzyme cleaning solution will not remove all silicone in 2, 3, or even more applications. |
Thanks guys for the info ,will check to see if i can find Premier locally. I think if i scrub the lp anymore i could start doing damage. |
I don't know if you could do any damage as the silicone on your record is actually a lubricant. All you seem to be doing, and no offense intended, is wasting time with your present cleaner as the silicone is resisting heartily.
Albert's recommendation makes sense and I'm ordering some as well.
I've never had the problem but forewarned is forearmed. |
? for Albert Porter: do you have a contact for the distributor? Want to try for a better deal than the $20.00 a can from the online retailers? |
The company is Micro Care Corp. I would look for a local distributor as they do not sell direct. I happened to be lucky that there was a distributor here in Dallas.
I had to set up as a dealer and buy 48 cans to even get a small break. I think it worked out to about $13.00 a can plus tax and shipping.
Unless the guys that retail this are getting a better deal, it's not a big money maker for them. I have a music group of about 20 guys and gals and I'm the supplier on this item for them (at cost). Other people in the group come up with other products and labor so we all share goodies to help our systems. |
thanks for the info Albert. No luck finding one here in Austin. BTW, you sure have a nice looking system. |
Thank you for the kind words.
Even if you tried out Premiere' record cleaner at the going price of $20.00, that's cheap admission to test out it's cleaning ability.
If you love it, maybe go for a massive order like I did. Truth is, unless you have a group to split it up with, 48 cans is too much for one person. |
I am also getting a white residue on the stylus after playing lps only cleaned with aivs. My other lps that have been cleaned repeatibly with Disc Doctor, Nitty Gritty fluid and steam do not show this white residue.
So, do my other lps still have this silicon coating on them and its just too hard to wear off by the stylus? Does the avis soften the coating so that the stylus now wears it off? |
I have been using the Mint strips for about a month now and cannot recommend them enough. Over the past six months i have aquired about 20 new old stock sealed direct to disc lps. I have not been able to get them perfectly clean. After playing one side of the lp i found that my stylus had a white powdery build up on it and the highs would suffer greatly after playing a couple tracks. I have tried AIVS single step, AIVS 3 step, VPI cleaning solutions and one other cleaning solution . These were all combined with steam cleaning and i was not able to get rid of the powdery residue. I talked with the very helpful people from AIVS and they suggested soaking the lp for a few hours , this did very little to help.
I now use steam ,vaccuum, MINT cleaning solution ,steam ,vaccuum, AIVS 2nd step,steam,vaccuum, then double rinse of AIVS ultra pure water, vaccuum.
The vaccuum is done with a VPI 16.5 with the Mint strips installed with the slot reduced to 50% of the normal width. Now my lp's are perfectly clean except for the
occasional piece of airborne debris that lands on the lp during playback. I view the stylus through a 30x power microscope after each play and the stylus is perfectly clean. The only change i have made in my procedure is the Mint Strips on the suction tube and my lp's are perfectly clean. One draw back is i now find that due to the higher suction rate if i vaccuum more than one revolution on the final rinse i get a considerable static charge build up on the lp and sometimes have to go back and re rinse and vaccuum to reduce the static build up. I will have to invest in a machine to reduce or eliminate the static build up next.
I am not sure what is causing my lp's to be so clean now, it might be the thinner and finer Mint strips or the narrower slot creating more suction at the lp grooves, but it works great and i replace the Mint strips every half bottle of cleaning solution and i am sure fresh clean strips help too.
Just my 2 cents worth.
Todd |
What are the Mint strips and where do I get some? |
Headsnappin - I called them Mint strips the manufacturer calls them Mint Stripes, they are just replacement strips of a soft fabric used to replace the cleaning fabric on the suction tube on the VPI 16.5 record cleaner. Since you are not using a VPI record cleaner i don't think they will do you much good. I have been using their cleaning fluid too and seems to work very well.I believe the only way you can get the Mint Stripes is to purchase the cleaning fluid. Here is the link www.mintlp.com.
After many many hours of trial and error and 4 different cleaning fluids including steam it seems this is the only way i have been able to remove the white residue from my lp's. I feel that it could be the stronger suction that is removing the residue. Hope this helps.
Todd |
Hey Todd, I am in fact using a 16.5. Thanks for the info, I may try them out. |
There is another thread on the same subject started a little later. Not sure whether this is the same problem but just in case, here is the info I got on a thread on the phonogram email list a while ago:
There have been some problems at the RTI with a patch of inner sleeves that they received from their long-time supplier. The glue that holds the plastic in the paper sleeves leaked through the plastic and causes the white marks on the vinyl.
It should not affect the sound, however if the other thread is correct about white-stuff accumulating on the stylus, I would think this is a problem. Also, I am worried about long-term effects on the record. Finally, this will seriously lower the resale value of affected records (some original Blue notes with similar stains went for $40 instead of $400.)
There is almost no point contacting the dealer where you bought the records, as most likely all the LPs in stock will have the same problem! I have about 7-8 Music Matters and AP titles that have the problem. At $20/LP I probably wouldn't complain, at $50 I am more than annoyed that RTI doesn't institute a recall of the affected titles. |
Albert, did the Micro cleaner completely remove the white marks on the Music Matters and other RTI pressings?
That would be a perfect solution together with replacing the faulty inner sleeves. |
Restock, I did not have the problem of white marks on my Music Matters LP's. Perhaps I was lucky or there are only a few with the marks.
I assume by Micro cleaner you mean Micro Care, the cleaner is called Premier and it works wonders on mold release, which is what it was designed for.
I'll look carefully at some of my new LP's and see if any have this white contaminant and then test to see if Premier works for that as well. |
Albert, after you spray the Premier on the record surface, do you vacuum it off or just wipe it off with a soft rag?
Thanks,
Carter |
I use Nitty Gritty cleaning pads, but anything that has a soft "velvet" type surface would work. I would avoid those super large pads as they tend to soak up too much Premier rather than distributing it into the LP grooves. I've also used the pads that come with Last Record Preservative with good success, although it's easier to damage the LP scrubbing with it, compared to the wrap around design of Nitty Gritty. Here's a link to image of Nitty Gritty Record Brush http://www.needledoctor.com/Nitty-Gritty-Record-Brush?sc=2&category=1182Another link, this is the Last applicator brush http://www.needledoctor.com/Last-Record-Brushes-10-PackWith either applicator, Premier evaporates so quickly you would think it's done no good, until you compare sound of LP's treated with Premier and without. I think it's important to use Premier first. That way, any dislodged debris will be dissolved and vacuumed away in your Walker, Audio Intelligence, Mo Fi Enzyme or other cleaning fluid that follows. Since my other post, I took a look at my Music Matters and Acoustic Sounds reissues and none have the white residue. That does not mean it was not there, all but a hand full have already been cleaned with Premier using my RCM "string" type record cleaning machine, followed by Mo Fi Enzyme or Walker (I have AVS, Walker, Record Research, MO Fi Enzyme and other cleaners laying around). If I find an LP with the residue problem, I will test with Premier and report back. |
Albert, thanks for the response. Just to clarify whether we all are talking about the same white marks: here is a thread with a picture of the white marks I find on Music Matters, AP and some Cisco LPs (all pressed by RTI): Audioasylum thread with pictures |
What ugly stains on an otherwise great LP. However, it looks more like something from the jacket or sleeve rather than a pressing defect.
I'll look over a few more of my Blue Note reissues. |
Has anyone found the Premier cleaner (or Enzymes, etc...) effective in removing the white stains on the Blue Note reissues? I never noticed any white stains on my LP's when first purchased, but over time I think the glue made it through the plastic of the inner sleeve and onto the vinyl...same predictable pattern as seen in the pics over on AA.
I've already tried some of the RRL fluids alonly with some light scrubbing. Grrr! |
