a Neuance board and rack for the Neuance board to sit on. Ask Ken to recommend a rack. I have not heard anything better than the neuance Beta for my EMC-1. |
A slab of corian w/ some vibrapods, or other sorbothane type feet. |
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You might try a set of Aurios Pros. They are expensive, but make an enormous difference. |
try a $4 small inner tube from a kids bike or wheel barrow with something heavy on top (large book, slab of marble, etc). Its only $4 and probably the cheapest trial method you could do before investing in other methods... |
I second Rgd's suggestion, except I'd add try it without the book or the slab of marble as well (just make sure the player is level), as you'd like to drain the vibrations from the player into the innertube as well as those coming from the shelf on which the player sits. You might try the heavy book on top of the player to add damping as well (I found a telephone book on top of a Marantz CD 63 to be effective in that regard). Different feet, shelves, etc. will definitely change the sound, often in a way you might prefer, but with tubed equipment I've concluded after a lot of trial and error that isolation from vibrations is the best route to getting the best resolution and sound. And Rgd's method is very cheap and effective. |
Pend there are a thousand opinions on this issue: My own results with inner tubes were not good at all, but it won't hurt to try it. Good results were achieved with a Black Diamond shelf sitting on Vibrapods. Cones are then placed under the CDP in between the BD shelf; BD #4 cones are presently installed, but sometimes the BD #3's or even brass Audio Point cones with saucers are better, depending upon the downline setup in use at the time. Similar setup is under power amp , tuner & preamp, but these are better without cones in my rig (yours will be different of course).
However I found that those glass doors are awful & it all sounds much better with them removed. This was true whether the doors were closed or left standing open |
I have had excellent luck with the Machina Dynamica Nimbus isolation base which uses a Firestone air shock as the primary isolation device. The air shock is gravity loaded with 30# of dead weight and the pressure set at 28-30#. Based on my experience with the Arcici airhead, I think that Arcici's approach is rather simplistic and prone to variable results. I find it to be little better than an inner tube (which is exactly what the Arcici is-three or four tractor tire inner tubes in a nice box). If your decide to try this approach, experiment with inflation (less is often better than more) and with mass loading. If your cd player is light, try adding weight to get the total to 30# or more. Good luck. |
I too have greatly benefitted by adding a Neuance shelf under my Theta Pearl. Basically it extended the strengths of the Pearl. Mine sits on the top shelf of my Target Beta rack, and Ken Lyon can custom make one to fit your rack. |
try putting it on a maple chopping block. also try putting hockey pucs under it . |
Audioquest sorbethane feet. Cheap, and you can hear the difference. |
I'll have to agree with Kirk 930. Maple and/or pucks work well. |
Official Hockey Pucks for a buck. |
I found a Neuance to INCREDIBLY transform an older Rotel CDP by dramatically improving its coherence...so I even bought one for my new 44 lb EMC-1 mkII. The improvements here are indeed more subtle, but include a small further "tightening" of the presentation without the loss of bass articulation and timng so inherent in air bladders and "wobbly" supports. I understand rollerblocks also sound similarly tight and coherent.
Good luck. |
Ernie - the rollerblocks were similar to using cones, just better, for me - but the Neuance was much better again. It is true some components benefit more than others - for example I find the excellent construction of Sonic Frontiers equipment means vibration isolation in the shelf is less important than with other gear. |
Red,
Interesting sloppy experiment: wanted to install my Aleph P
inside my rack, drilling access holes appropriate for height cun Neuance, so robbed the Neuance from my emc-1 mkII
and slid it under the pre. Installed a Harm Tech AC ProII PC on the emc at the same time. Net result seems a bit rougher up top. Seems the loss of the Neuance is more important than the addition of a custom power cord.
Of course I'll know better after the second Neuance arrives (hurry up, Ken! ;o) and I can perform a proper trial of the two PCs. Ken's now making Alphas rated up to 35 lbs; Betas up to 65.
My comments re the rollerblocks are just repeated hearsay (as you might gather); those of the Neuance are empirical...
what a nice product, eh? Ern
Those |
Plain old American Maple, 1/4" thick. You can purchase from any shop that caters to butchers. Works better than all the cones, iso bearings and Black Diamond shelving I have tried. I exlusivley use 1/4" Maple under everything. You should perhaps consider trying it as it is far less costly than some of the other options and I have found it to be far superior in sound quality. Now I will say that the Sony SCD-1 that owned at one time sounded best on the Maple supported by a tio of Walker Audio cones (the ultimate set). But everything else liked the plain Maple.
Mike |
I don't have the right words for it, but there are some important distinctions in my head between the options described above.
The most notable is a choice between high mass and low mass. Getting something that is high mass and damped is easy (ie. a telephone book). So you can get a neutral result with pleasing bass weight. But I believe the fans of this approach don't know what they are missing. If you try a Neuance shelf you will get a neutral result, but speed and detail that the high mass approach is incapable of achieving. The high mass approach can seem a good one if you are just listening to the "sound" (or harmonic structure) of instruments and voices. But if you listen to how the music lifts you up and takes you on a musical journey (some call it PRAT), there is no contest. Personally, I had all but given up on the low mass approach until I found a product that did the difficult task of achieving low mass, high rigidity, and damped across the musical spectrum. And by the way, its "sound" is wonderful in ways that you will not appreciate until you take the shelf away (isn't that right Ernie?).
The next distinction is between focussing on the shelf or the footers. As to the cones and rollerblocks out there, they provide a low mass and rigid interface, but are not well damped and so all tend to be peaky in some way. That is, they tend to channel energy into a narrow region.
The soft feet and bladders all sound distinctly odd to me in that they seem to have a region where transients are hopelessly smeered in time, more like a "suck-out" than a peak, which results in massive loss of PRAT. Some are just better than others. Vibrapods seem to be popular, but I find they add an upper midrange presence that is not welcomed by me - others clearly like it.
I guess my conclusions are that the shelf is where one should focus, not the footers. I like the E-A-R feet that are neither hard like cones or soft like Vibrapods or Sorbothane, and sound more even-handed and slightly better than rubber - but largely because they allow the Neuance shelf to just do the job without intervention from the footer.
I reckon that if you have an inappropriate rack and shelf, certain footers will sound beneficial, but will also seem like a trade-off in some way. Which is what they are. So what I am suggesting is what I found - which is that if you get a light/rigid/spiked steel rack and use a Neuance shelf (maybe there are similar products like the Torlyte shelves) you will find that the footers will sound horrible. And that is because their beneficial effects have become largely redundant and their downsides are exposed.
Apologies if this comes across like the ravings of a zealot. Just my opinion folks, but the opinion of one that is real happy about where he has got to with vibration treatment in his system. |
