MM phono stages introduce capacitance which is completely useless for MC carts. I am not technical enough to assess if capacitance would affect the sound adversely, so I would suggest looking into this and finding more professional advise on a subject.
Highly adjustable (mouse piano) phono stages,imho sound worse than non-adjustable phonos. |
Brent, All transformers have a primary and secondary winding (if they only have a primary then they are called autoformers). The windings do not care if one side is at ground or not. So at the input to the SUT, you could lift the winding connection that is at ground, and use an XLR connector, set up with pin 1 (ground) being the arm ground and transformer shield, pin 2 being the + output of the cartridge and the 'normal' input wire to the SUT, and pin 3 being the minus output of the cartridge and the wire that was lifted from ground.
This effects a balanced input, and the output can then be single-ended or balanced, again using the same technique. |
Ralph, I DIY'd the cable from the SUT to the mm section of my preamp first before doing any other changes. There was some improvement,but nothing like changing the tonearm wire and the internal wire of the SUT. My next move is to make a new DIY cable from the SUT to the preamp using the Mil-spec. solid silver wire.stay tuned.
e |
Emorrisiv, have you been playing with loading? |
Right now I am loaded at 50 ohms and I like it pretty well. I have tried a lot of different load settings with my old MC phono amp and came to like it down around 200. I just got a old Dynaco Pas2 and after defeating the tone controls it is sounding pretty good. The secondarys are 1/15 or 1/30 and right now I am using the 1/30. Lots of gain! by doing the math it comes to about 52ohms. With the other secondary it comes to a little over 200. I have not made up my mind which I like better.
e |
I understand there are passive SUT's and active (headamp) SUT's.
Which of the two is better ?
I have tried the MC-4, Bent SUT, Altec 4722 SUT and Lundahl SUT. All seems to work very good.
Can someone point out an active SUT ?
Thanks for the inputs |
SUT= step up transformer. this is a passive device.The signal from a low output moving coil (lomc)is sent into the SUT and then sent to a preamp with a moving magnet phono section (RIAA). The low output is "stepped up" so that the MM section will have enough additional gain so that the lomc can be heard.
Pre Preamp is a active step-up with it's own power supply. These also are put into a moving magnet phono section,but these are amplified where as a SUT uses it's current to create voltage. Probably the best out there is the ZYX,which I understand is very good. But these are usually inferior.
Then there are phono stages that have enough gain to allow a lomc to play without a step up. These came about mainly because Preamps were no longer being built with moving magnet phono sections. The "phono stage" plugs into a line level source input on a preamp and is a active device. Many will have a moving magnet as well as a moving coil setting for the additional gain required of low output moving coil (lomc) cartridges.
confused? |
Emorrisiv,
When you are referring as " But these are usually inferior."
Do you mean SUT's are inferior ?
So phono stages with enough gain to allow lomc to play without a step up is better ?
Thanks for the inputs. |
No, SUTs are usually better than pre preamps. I have not heard one but the ZYX pre preamp, or also called "head-amp" is very good. Most of the pre preamps I have heard are not nearly as good as a good SUT. They tend to have hum and noise and a limited band width. SUTs,can also have hum problems, but it is usually a relationship with a ground or a cable.
It is best if you can keep the tone arm cable going to the SUT as short as possible and to use good shielded wire.
Check out "Bob's Devices" for tips on grounding.Bob is a super nice guy that is very helpful and offers nice SUTs at very good prices. he helped me with my DIY project and I didn't even buy anything from him.
how cool is that?
e |
I think one of the best pre-preamps out there at a reasonable price is the Hagerman Piccolo. Dead quiet and with a few judicious parts upgrades it is utterly transparent and beautiful to listen to. Now I haven't heard a lot of these but I did compare this to the famed TX103's and I came away feeling the TX103's were colored. |
IME you can get excellent results with an SUT but the cartridge and the SUT must be matched for best results, including all the loading issues, as cartridges have loading issues and SUTs have loading issues of their own and neither can be ignored. That is why they have to matched, so that when the SUT is properly loaded, so is the cartridge.
However I have found the transformers anywhere in the audio chain represent a loss of bandwidth and detail with added distortion. It is in the phono section that they potentially represent the least effect, but as they are located at the very first place the signal will pass through, any issues they have are compounded by the gain and distortion of everything downstream. Now that might not be so bad if an active stepup (that is also being considered) is poorly designed, but it is obvious that a properly designed phono section that has enough gain will give any SUT a run for the money.
Sometimes though you do find certain people who cannot tolerate any noise (and therefore may prefer digital on this account, despite analog being better in every other way). For anyone who has noise issues SUTs represent an excellent compromise. IOW it is possible, using and SUT, to get signal to noise ratios in the -90 db range.
In a nutshell: for maximum transparency and bandwidth go direct if you can. For minimum noise go with an SUT.
With less than state of the art equipment IMMV! |
That explains why I like the SUT, because I don't have SOTA equipment. Far from it.
Ralph on the other hand makes state of the art gear and I am sure is well versed in the potentialities from the various methods of vinyl playback.
Being a old audiophile, I would admit that I have some bias towards some methods. I prefer lomcs,SUTs,electrostatics and tubes. With the exception of lomcs and tubes I am very much "out of vogue". Especially when you consider my Acoustats require considerable power and present somewhat challenging loads for amplifiers. In contrast the vogue is low power SETs and horns or very high efficiency dynamic "sound coffins". LOL! I couldn't resist.
One thing that most of us agree on: vinyl rules! So whatever method you choose or prefer,it is (IMHO) still better than digital.
We all like what we like. That is one of the things that makes this hobby so interesting. |
|
|
Well my 2 cents is that I am using an on board phono stage off my Audio Research SP9MKIII with a LOMC (.5mv) and I have never had a more smooth, open, detailed, warm and "live" sound than I do now. But I am lucky in that the on board phono stage had 67db of gain right out of the gate, so all I had to do was adjust the impedence to 100 0hms to match the cart and away I went. |
Definitely a good MM + Step Up. It makes sense to invest in different SUTs or at least go for an excellent one and use many tonearms at the same time - there are solutions for doing so... |
After these months of playing around with different combo, i much prefer in the end, mm+ step up rather than a straight MC phono stage. |
Glad to hear it Nolitan.
I just reset my SUT from 1/30 to 1/15 ratio. This seams to be working well with my Denon 103. The 30x is good, but the 200 ohm load from the 15x adds some mid and high frequency clarity. Some would call it brighter, I would call it more balanced.
e |
Give the Allnic AUT 2000 an audition. It is "Incredible". |
