Which amp with Wilson watt puppy 8


Hi there !

i live on an island with no audiophile shops around. 
I arrived in 2011 with a Jeff Rowland continuum 250 and Sonus Faber Cremona m speakers who were a great match. Unfortunately I blew the speakers a few times, then upgraded to columns, blew them also twice. I guess the amp is too powerful for them, but this time Sonus Faber was unable to provide me replacement tweeters and speakers, which is an enormous disappointment. I will never buy anything from them again. I ran through the web and found corresponding parts that I changed myself, but they seem to sound much higher in the trebles and lack bass, especially at high volume levels, (above 55%) . I tried swapping the cables, but it didn’t change anything. 
I now bought a pair of Wilson audio watt puppy 8 that arrived this week from a NYC store. I hope them to last lifetime. 
They have cost me around 11.5k$ door to door, look great and tough, but need to be driven above 60 % of volume otherwise nothing comes out of them, especially bass !
I also get the same sharp treble sound, which is very disappointing.
My problem is to find the issue : 

1/ room acoustic

2/ change my class D amplifier for tubes or transistors

3/ find better cables

4/ me turning old ?

what should I do next ? what amplifier would you recommend with this configuration (watt puppy 8, MIT Avtr 1, ps audio direct stream mk1, aurender n10, musical fidelity M6 CD) ?

thank you 


 

lendivf

@ozzy 

+1 The Watt Puppy 8 does have a notably harsh... unnatural top end. It’s doesnt’ ruin the experience... otherwise it is very good sounding. I have a friend with a pair. Even with very natural sounding tube electronics this is obvious to an experienced listener. With the Puppys set up correctly in a good acoustic space the brittle top end was obvious to me inside of a minute. But if the room acoustics aren’t good, or set up not great, it could be masked by other problems. I

I am in the camp of the need to determine why you were burning out Sonus Farber drives.  If the JR is at fault, it could be causing SQ issues with the Wilson’s as well. The following are potential root causes:

1:  Overloading the speaker.  Possible.  The SFC is rated to 250 W.  The JF is 400 W into 8 ohms, double that into 4 ohms.  So the amp maximum is a lot for the speakers. But the SFC has a 91dB sensitivity.  So I question whether you still have eardrums if you were overdriving the SFCs. 


2:  Distortion related causes:

  • Clipping:   Based on the specs for the speakers and integrated amp mentioned above, I do not believe this is a potential root cause.  
  • Integrated Amp Power Supply:  A faulty power supply can have a broad range of effects including introducing DC into the speaker terminals and blowing speakers or causing   issues like you describe with the Wilson’s. 
  • Capacitor failure: Faulty capacitors can introduce DC into the speaker terminals and blow speakers and cause some of the SQ issues you describe with the Wilson’s.  Did you ever have it recapped?

The JR integrated is a musical piece.  It should be able to drive the Wilson’s 89dB sensitivity and nominal 4 ohm impedance (low 2 ohm) with ease but remember, it is a more difficult load than the SFC.   Before you budget a significant spend on a new integrated amp, I would have the JF evaluated by a good technician, or by the JR.  Also, follow the directions of all those before me on giving attention to setup, speaker placement and room acoustics.   
 

Finally, if you are set on a new integrated amp,  I have the following recommendations in order of my preference:

  • Audio Note Humboldt - Clarity and powerful.  Three dimensional.  Musical. 
  • Burmester 232 or 032 - Clarity.  Less power than the Humboldt and this may not be for you.  Commandingly musical and dimensional. My favorite.  
  • Dan D'Agostino Progression Integrated Amplifier:  Powerful.  Darker sound than the two above.
  • Mola Mola Kula:  Don’t let its small size fool you.  Enough Class D power for the Wilson’s.  Highly musical.

Each of the above has its own sound characteristics so you need to audition and choose for yourself.

 

 
 

 


 

@lendivf After you have had time to soak in all this good advice and you are thinking about a new/used amp, give us what you are thinking about for your price range so folks can update their amp suggestions. 

Hi folk’s

Wow this is my first post on audiogon and I got so many interesting answers in such a short time  ! Thank’s to you all. It would take me months to get a similar thread in French. God bless America ! 
I actually bought my w/p on audiogon, and to answer @hjdca, they arrived fully serviced and in extraordinary condition (no scratches, new pads) from a NYC Wilson Audio official reseller. So I am confident. 
I must correct something after 5 days (and nights😨) of listening. 
My house is very noisy during day time (5 kids multiplied by numerous friends). 
My living-room is an L form opened on the rest of the floor with no door (first thing to fix!). Walls are covered with books on one side and the floor is covered with carpets. A 50-80% volume during the day in a noisy environment turns into a 20-40% at night for a similar experience (normal/ loud) and I do get in that range a well developed bass and a cristal clear treble, which I would qualify as “ Powerfull and detailed” vs “acute and accurate” for the SF, but then I can only refer to a “non official” rebuilt pair of speakers (with original drivers from madisound, but not the ones coming from SF). The SF would start sounding very loud and distorted above 80% and burn between 90-100%. The Wilson Audio seem to be capable of holding those volumes, but I won’t risk it for the moment. I actually never listen music at those volumes, but I presume my boys have 🤔 
I am very concerned about those who advised me to have the amp checked, because it might cost me the price of an amp to do so from where I am. I did have a few accidents in the past (short circuits when moving the speakers for ex) and the amplifier did turn to protection mode once or twice. If any one know’s precisely how to test the different components on a class D, I could maybe give it a try with my multimeter.   I did compare a class D amp to 1 and 0’s, but it was more of an image because obviously the entering signal is analogic and not digital. Thus, the ice modules have far less transistors and more chips and filters at équivalant power than a class  A/B amp, so I presume the effect on sound to be more brutal in case of defect. 
My issue is first to determine if my listening disappointment comes from a technical (faulty amp) aspect or an emotional aspect (lack of warmth and roundness of my class D) who maybe was giving me more satisfaction in my small Parisian apartment with bookshelves Sf Cremona M speakers than connected today in a bigger space to bigger speakers. 
I have a last issue regarding lamps : we have very fluctuant voltage on the island and sometimes electrical overpower. Of course my hi-fi is surge protected, but I was afraid to go for a McIntosh 275 in the past and having to deal with lamp problems, especially when those lamps will completely change the sound according to the brand you decide to buy ?  
If I manage to sell my current amp and speakers I could go for a second hand amp and preamp (although the ps audio dac works also as a preamp) in a 5-10k range. 
best regards. 
ps there is a pair of pass labs XA-100 for 6k on the French market. 
I cannot buy amps in the usa because of the voltage problem so I am looking at 220v units. 

XA-100 are pretty old. See if you can find XA-60.8 or X250.8 and even X350.8. You can drive the amps directly with ps audio dac. Should be ok.