IM THINKING IM WAY TO CLOSE TO THE FRONT WALL, THE MORE READING I DO.
I WAS JUST TRYING TO STAY FARTHER THAN 10 FT ON THE DISTANCE FROM MY LISTENING CHAIR. |
Why worry about what other people think? Put them where they sound good to you. Sorry, I just don't understand why people ask this sort of question. |
Zu has said in the past that Def models with rear-firing sub-bass arrays can be used as close as 2" from the wall behind them. And it's true. Is that ideal? Depends on your room and how much flexibility you have for placement.
What's more important with Definitions is making sure the distance between you, the listener, and the speakers is usable. Def 1.5 and Def2 did not soundstage nor tonally integrate well if the listener sat closer than 10' from the speakers. Sean Casey told me that Def3 and 4 are usable as close as 8' from the listener. While I suggest more, I have to say the deleterious effects of sitting too close to Def 4s are much less troublesome to illusion of fidelity than doing same with Def2 or earlier.
The rear-firing sub drivers are active below 40Hz unless you set the EQ to roll them I higher. Don't. Let your Def3s end up as close to the wall behind them as is necessary for you to achieve full tonal and spatial integration at an appropriate distance listening. Prioritizing distance to the wall over correct minimum listening distance will make deny you the speaker's full benefits. Work with your room.
Phil |
I assume that there are distances that produce better results than just randomly trying positions |
All rooms are different. It is my experience that all speakers end up sounding the best in the same location in a given room. If you used speakers in this room before and found the optimum location that is where these speakers should be. If not, it is trial and error until you find it. |
I would strongly disagree with Rrog: Maybe certain rooms and certain types of speakers can produce identical results but my room definitely does not fit that description.
And anyone who tells you that Zu sounds their best without fussy placement is lying to you!
I found my Zu's sounded best at least three feet from the front wall and a few feet from the side walls, however of course your room will be different. I followed Sean from Zu's placement advice to find the general correct area, then countless hours of fine tuning and micro adjustments till everything came together.
I have good friends who have had the same experience with Zu......placement is critical to get that last 5% that takes the, to the magical area! |
Morganc, All speakers need the same attention as your Zu speakers, but once you learn your room you will find other speakers will sound their best in the same place as the Zu. |
My Def 4s are closer to the wall than were my Def 2s. Also, the Def 2s seemed more fussy with regards to placement. I suspect that the Def 3s are more similar to the Def 2s because of the rear firing bass array. |
Rrog's idea makes sense if the speakers have similar frequency, power and radiation responses and the listening position is fixed. |
You all have good points, but my prior speakers were the Zu Presence and they were rectangular so totally different shape than the Definition 3, I think they worked best close to the side wall like 14 in but the def3 doesnt like it so much |
Onhwy61, You are right about the listening position being fixed. I have experienced this in the last three homes I have lived in with a variety of speakers from Martin Logan full range electrstatics, Magnepan, Vandersteen and Dunlavy to smaller speakers from Green Mountain Audio, Von Schweikert and Revel. All of these speakers performed their best in the same location. There will always be minor adjustments, but the room plays a bigger part in the overall sound than most people realize. |
52tiger, If you specify your room dimensions and constraints for moving your listening chair we could offer some more detailed advice.
I don't own Zu's but the more you pull your speakers away from the back wall the longer the arrival time is for the reflected sound. If the arrival time is too short it is perseived as direct sound and smears the image. You may want to read up on room acoustics for more information.
Sean |
On any NON PANEL speaker (A speaker in a box) You will find that the closer the speaker is to a back wall, the more bass reinforcement you will add. The closer your are to a side wall, the more reflective frequencies that you have to deal with. On side walls, the more tow in that you have the closer you can get to side walls without huge issues.
So start with your your room size and how far your seating position is from the back wall...
In general, I have always been able to obtain very good speaker placement. Start with measuring how far your seating position is in front of how far you would consider where you would want your speakers pulled out into the room. So, pull your speakers out to where you believe they should be... hopefully a minimum of a few feet from a back wall. Measure now from your speakers to about where your head placement would be if you were sitting in listening position. If this is 6 feet, try to get a 6 foot distance between your left speaker driver and your right speaker driver... if it is 8 ft from your head, try to get a distance of 8ft between your left and right drivers. This does not need to be exact, but in general works well. Now that they are seperated left from right, how far are they from the side walls?, try to ensure a minimum of 2 ft, 30 inches is better. Now, tow your speakers in to point at your ears when in your seating position. This should give you pin point imaging... if you have a hot spot or your speakers are a bit bright, start towing them outward, just an inch or so at a time. With some speakers, you can tow them outward until they are straight forward front firing, others you will destroy your stage with just a few inches.
The close that you get to a full front fire, the more the side walls will cause reflect and cause frequeny peaks where you will need to deal with room treatments or pull your speakers in more to the middle of the room ... 36 inches, 40 inches etc.
This method has proven very good for me. I hope that i've explained it well, good luck, Tim |
I set my Definitions with the listening position at 1.25x the tweeter distance apart this weekend. Best setup I have had. Also like it toe'd out at maybe 1/3 of the inner cabinet showing. |
My room is my bedroom with my listening chair at the foot so it's in the only place it can be.
The room is a nice size though it's a little over 23 ft long by 15 wide and 8 ft ceilings,it also has a large bathroom off of that it's all open.
I am around 14 ft off the front wall so have some room to work with was just trying to get some ideas because I thought the wider apart the speakers were the wider soundstage?
It's my listening area so as far as them being in the way or looking out of place that doesn't matter.
I just want to get the most out of my speakers, I don't watch much tv and believe it or not the big reason I got this house was for my listening area space.
I am addicted to music in a big way.
Like everyone else here,I just want to get the most out of what I have.thanks,Scott |
Thanks for all the info, I'll try a few things and see what sounds best, but from what I gather further into the room as long as I have a minimum of 10 ft from the speakers should do the trick. |
My room is my bedroom with my listening chair at the foot so it's in the only place it can be.
The room is a nice size though it's a little over 23 ft long by 15 wide and 8 ft ceilings,it also has a large bathroom off of that it's all open.
I am around 14 ft off the front wall so have some room to work with was just trying to get some ideas because I thought the wider apart the speakers were the wider soundstage?
It's my listening area so as far as them being in the way or looking out of place that doesn't matter.
I just want to get the most out of my speakers, I don't watch much tv and believe it or not the big reason I got this house was for my listening area space.
I am addicted to music in a big way.
Like everyone else here,I just want to get the most out of what I have.thanks,Scott |
52tiger, Looks like your speakers have built in adjustable subwoofers. Which makes it much easier to dial in the bass. Assuming you have your speakers on the short wall I would try pulling them out about 6 to 7 feet from the back wall. That should leave you about 10' from the speakers to the listening possition assuming your bed is on the other side of the room and you sit in front of it. You will have to readjust the bass controls as the bass will be less strong with the speakers pulled from the corners of the room. You should notice a deeper soundstage and a bigger sound with the speakers farther into the room. As for how far from the side walls 2 to 3 feet is a good place to start.
After you try that I would just move them around forwards and back/ side to side till you find the sweet spot for your taste. Being able to adjust the bass is a big bonus because it allows you to set the speakers in the best place for the soundstage then you can dial in the bass for that placement. My speakers have adjustable bass as well and I don't think I would have it any other way.
Sean |
New house dedicated room, 28 by 17.8 and 8 ft ceilings. I had them about 4 ft of wall behind speakers and about 13ft apart I thought the wider the better however I went and visited a shop in Memphis to have my turn table set up and he was listening about seven ft apart and seven ft away. I had remembered Shaun was saying in a room you should set the speakers a 3rd of the way in and so I tried the speakers at about 9 ft from the wall and about 9 ft apart. Let me back up a bit. At 4 ft It sounded good but there was a certain tone that would irritate my ear, not sure what it was but after I moved them it went away completely!!! To me placement made more of a difference than a new component did. |
The right distance is highly room-dependent. But you have lots of latitude for the minimum acceptable distance. The original Definition architecture with the rear-firing sub-bass array can be used as close as 2" from the wall behind them. Side walls and other boundaries will affect your perception of the soundstaging but sometimes you just don't have a practical choice. 2' from side walls is certainly within guidelines for acceptable placement.
Depending on the room, experimentation may lead to widely differing conclusions. You might trade image scale for lessened constraining effects of side walls. But you might make it up with less toe-in. Def3s have the nano FRDs, so you get more spatial latitude to dial in your preference on the continuum from precision to sheer spatial scale. Get away from booming effects of corners if possible and then prioritize soundstaging.
Phil |
