Markusthenaimnut, I ordered some of those Shuguang WE6SN7 plus tubes that you mentioned in your last post from Grant Fidelity last Feb 2023. Unfortunately they got lost and I never received them. Grant Fidelity said that the insurance that I purchased was only for breakage and didn't cover lost tubes. After about eight months they finally offered to give me a $166 credit which was about half of what I paid. The WE6SN7 plus tubes are no longer available.
I've been using Shuguang CV181-Z, Linlai E6SL7, and Shuguang WE KT88 tubes in my RFTLYS A5 and they sound pretty good together and also look very nice.
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The addition of a couple NOS Sylvania GTA 6SN7 tubes really made my Schiit Freya+ perform beautifully. It doesn't seem to matter what tubes are in the buffer stage. I think I have Tungsol or Electro Harmonix. A Chinese brand Shuguang have sounded very good in the Freya. These things are tall and have a "Belted" shape for lack of a better term. My Sylvanias were $100 for a pair.
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I too have tried many 6sn7 tubes over the years. My Rogue Metis Magnum pre-amp takes a pair of these tubes. Currently I'm using Sylvania 6sn7w short bottle black base. Out of all the tubes I've tried these are my favorite besides the metal base 6sn7w"s. I own most of the top rated USA tubes on the VTV shoot out list. For the ones I own I would say the ratings and descriptions of the tubes are pretty spot on. I'm lucky that I have a local guy that tests and sell tubes. I've known him so long that he gave me a pair of metal base Sylv. 6sn7w's to try out. The black base ones I have now sounded close enough to the metal I didn't buy them. The best non-expensive tube in my opinion is the GE 6ns7gta. It does a lot of things right for a relatively low price for an old stock tube.
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Last summer I picked up a lightly used Aric Audio Motherlode II. The gentleman I purchased it from,sent it with a pair of Ken Rad black glass VT231’s. I also don’t have much experience with the 6snl7 tubes. However most that I have tried,( some 50’s,60’s RCA’s,Sylvania’s,GE) don’t seem to match what I’m hearing with the KenRads. I do at some point plan on trying Psvane,and possibly Linlai globe type tubes.
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I think this is a good thread to resurrect. There are other threads on this topic on Audiogon where it was explored quite enthusiastically in the last few years. They are worth seeking out.
I have obsessed and researched and bought and rolled many varieties of 6SN7 tubes in my Supratek Cortese preamp. It is an addiction.
I AM NOT AN EXPERT and don’t pretend to advise others about which 6SN7 is *best*. I think it is very system and circuit dependent, not to mention a matter of taste and personal preference. A great circuit with a highly developed parts list will make a lot of tubes sound great. A poor circuit can benefit from tubes where the characteristics of the tube serve as a remedy to counteract the shortcomings of the circuit design or parts build list.
I seem to recall reading a post in which someone expressed doubts about some of the VTV tube rankings because someone involved in the rankings had a bunch of tubes they wanted to sell. I don’t recall where I read this tidbit. Take it with a grain of salt.
One reason I wanted to chime in on this thread is that whoever came up with the rankings above arrived at different rankings than many of the other rankings on the ’net. The list above makes no mention of Tung Sol round plates, Ken-Rad black glass VT231s or the other highly sought after varieties of this wonderful tube. There are even current/recent production tubes that those with more experience than I have rate very highly. For instance, the no-longer-in-production Shuguang WE6SN7 PLUS tube. Highly sought after, virtually unobtainable since the fire in the Shuguang factory a few years back.
I have not had the pleasure or invested the time or money necessary to try any of the modern Chinese varieties, such as the so-called CV-181, the Linlai or the Psvane. There are some pretty cool looking varieties out there. Today a buddy of mine got a new Supratek preamp that used red-base Psvane 6SN7 tubes. They looked gorgeous with the color scheme of the new Cortese.
Don Sachs uses 6SN7 tubes in his preamp. Not sure what current production variety he is using but for a while he was using the Shuguang WE6SN7 plus tubes.
I think my best advise is to try a few varieties (use socket savers to protect your sockets from wear and tear), roll them, borrow some from a friend, and share your personal results here.
Let’s keep the ball rolling. I hope I have not stepped on anyone’s toes with my comments.
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I say let's revive this thread; there are more people now than ever looking for the best sounding 6SN7 tube and now there are more choices than ever with so many Chinese companies now making tubes and tube amplifiers. Psvane, Shuguang, and Linlai are all Chinese companies making very good tubes. I'm using a Shuguang CV181-Z tube for my 6SN7 tube and a NOS RCA 5691 tube for my 6SL7 tube and they sound very good together, The Shuguang is softer and a little laid back while the RCA 5691 is warmer and more forward sounding so they complement each other nicely. The Shuguang is really a 6SN7 tube labeled as a CV181 tube and it draws the same heater current of 600ma as a 6SN7 tube and not the higher 950ma heater current that the old Mullard CV181. The RCA 5691 does have a heater current of 600ma which is higher than the 300ma of the 6SL7 tube so you need to make sure your transformer can handle the extra current. My Chinese made RFTLYS A5 tube amplifier has pretty beefy transformers and it doesn't seem to have any problem using the 5691 tubes in place of the 6SL7 tubes. The transformer is only getting slightly warmer than before; it is not hot you can leave your hand on it for as long as you want.
For those of you that are into NOS tubes, I've discovered a treasure trove of information that is still available on line.
All 20 issues of the Vacuum Tube Magazine are available on line in .pdf format and can be downloaded for free.
http://www.enjoythemusic.com/diy/0414/vacuum_tube_valley.htm
I found a listening test done on many 6SN7 tubes back in 1999 on page 9 of issue #11 which gave each tube a numerical score.
The top six scoring tubes were:
The Mullard CV181 (ST shaped 1952) score 97
Sylvania 6SN7W (metal base ring, top getter early 1940s) score 97
Raytheon 6SN7WGT (brown base 1950s) score 96
Sylvania VT-231 (bottom getter WWII era) score 95
Sylvania 6SN7GT (top getter, black base early tri-plate 1950s) score 95
GE 6SN7GTA (1953) score 94
https://web.archive.org/web/20131122141643/http://www.jumpjet.info/Pioneering-Wireless/eMagazines/VTV/VTV11.pdf
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You have 3 posts and you’re digging up a years old thread, just to knock AudiogoN and show your ignorance? How many tubes have you personally auditioned against or compared to 1940’s metal based, NOS, Sylvania 6SN7Ws? Have you EVER SEEN a Sylvania 6SN7W, in person, let alone HEARD one, in a decent system? "Some say they are the best sounding 6sn7 ever made" ??? This is a highly subjective(look up the definition) hobby and, "SOME SAY" is a VERY ACCURATE statement! What’s, "ridiculous", is your inability to recognize and accept those two facts. In fact, "MOST SAY", would have been a more accurate statement, based on actual comparisons, like this: http://www.dehavillandhifi.com/6sn7_vt.htm ".....forums like this are just a sharing of ignorance.....", AND- you’re fitting right in, with the rest of your (possibly)deaf, (obviously)inexperienced, (painfully)whiny, nay-saying ilk. "HEARSAY"?? YES- Some of us actually can HEAR differences(in the things that we physically TRY) and SAY it! |
"Some say they are the best sounding 6sn7 ever made" If you just think, even for a second, how ridiculous this statement is, you will realise that forums like this are just a sharing of ignorance and hearsay.
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Sylvania 6sn7GT, 3-hole, bottom getter "bad boys" are a step up from the GTA chrome domes. I know people like to recommend Ken-rad dark glass but fail to mention non-microphonic ones are very hard to find. Early RCA 6sn7GT are quite nice too. Since Russia is in the news so much lately, how about the Melz 1578, black plates with round holes? Some say they are the best sounding 6sn7 ever made, certainly the best out of USSR. I like them. |
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@bigbear: which 3-hole Sylvanias exactly we're talking here, Big Boys, chrome dome GTAs? Can You point to an exact example? Thx.
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I recently picked up some Sylvania three hole 6SN7T's from Dave Hollander. I'm using them in a pair of Octave Audio Amps. The tubes supplied by the manufacturer had no markings. So, I'm not sure what I replaced but the difference surprised me.
The Sylvania's three hole tubes produced a much better layered soundstage. I also was heard sounds at the rear of the stage more clearly. Previously these were masked. Finally, the transparency had increased from the front to the rear of the stage. Overall, the differences were not subtle and surpassed those of the supplied tubes and some Tung-Sols that I tried. I highly recommend that you give the Sylvannas a try.
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A wealth of info here: (http://www.dehavillandhifi.com/6sn7_vt.htm). I found their results very accurate, having tried the top 10 favorites of the survey in my Cary monoblocks. The 1940's, bottom gettered Sylvania VT-231/6SN7GT, is a VERY nice(transparent) tube. The tall bottle, 6SN7W has more bass slam and a deeper sound stage. |
I just recently upgrade my Supratek Chenin to Supratek Cortese mkII which is much more transparent hence differences between tubes can be easily heard. I tried Ken Rad black glass , big bass, nice presentation but not involving. Long time ago I have bought some NS grey glass 7sn7 - unbelievable what a change, tangibility, aliveness, transparency, huge dynamics, drive, drive. Different league.
After I have tried Sylvania metal base 6sn7W similar in scene, transparency but I have lost tangibility and drive.
Somebody told me that CV2821 is special, I was lucky to be able to find a pair. It do not have drive of NU grey glass I was not tapping my feet, but it have speed, transparency, resolution I never thought is possible with my gear.
If only I could have dynamics, slam of NU grey glass with speed , transparency of CV 2821. |
I've tried Brimars, Sylvania green letter & VT 231, etc. The Ken-Rad JAN matched black glass VT231's that I have gone with in my pre line section are, together with the WE300B, the best tube I've heard overall. About $125/pr...enormously musical, spacious, dark and mysterious with the best bass, bar none. That is,if you can find them... The last Sylvania 6SN7W metal base CHS that I saw went for $300. Ouch. |
The last pair of Ken-Rad's that I tracked on Ebay went to Mr Blume of Coincident fame. He must like them in his setup, unless they were a gift for someone else. Yes, I am a busy body, so don't start. |
Reylon- Great tube choices! However, I don't believe that Sylvania ever made the metal base VT-231. These were 6SN7A or 6SN7W metal base of the JAN-CHS- variety. Both the Tung-Sol and the KenRad VT-231 dark glass are excellent tubes as well; and though a little hard to find, are certainly less expensive than the metal base Sylv. |
Hi,
The following are worth tracking down:
33S30(The absolute best,but almost impossible to find).
Syl. VT-231 metal base
TungSol VT-231 dark glass round plates
KenRad VT-231 dark glass
Good Luck,Raanan
P.S. Try searching the old dejanews groups on the Google Beta feature. |
Edle: Sorry, I just went to Audioasylum.com and the search feature will be down until Monday or so (they are re-vamping the site). When it comes up again, try searching under your specific amp and the type of tube and you should find many other user/owner comments on various combos (granted that you do not own an oddball one such as I do). Many of the posters will also have their systems posted in a separate area of the site, which will help you to understand where they are coming from. This is second best to trying the tubes yourself, but is a usefull aid. |
I am not an NOS tube aficianado. But I will say that in the output driver section of my c-j MV-55 power amp, I have tried various old American 6SN7's taken from my guitar amps,plus some originally store-branded NOS ones (probably of RCA manufacture) that I ordered from ATSI. Compared to the new Sovteks at $6 a pop (ATSI price), the differences were too small to worry over in my system (playing through Thiel CS2 2's). Much less to choose from here than in output or input tube selection (where I actually tend to disfavor Sovteks). I can only conclude that either the new tube is competent, or that in the driver position of this amp, at least, the choice is not critical. Whatever the case, they've been reliable, and are certainly cheap enough that it's painless to keep 'em in "to-spec" condition through regular replacement. But as you can tell, I'm one to avoid NOS anxiety wherever I can away with it - I find that doing so helps me to relax and just enjoy my music |
Edie, where is this 6SN7 going, and what function does it perform in your system? Also would help if you explain your reason for wanting to replace the current tube in that circuit ( microphonics, distortion, short life, etc.) |
The best one is the one that sounds the best in your amp (your circuit) and your system, to you. There is no best tube, in general, considering these criterium, as each tube will perform differently under these different conditions and also according to your own personal taste. Some people dislike Sylvanias, some 5692's in general and some RCA's (including the red line and base models). The only "Hall of Famer" that I am aware of is the Ken-Rad Vt-231/6SN7GT, but as to whether you would like the sound of it in your system, I don't know. Try running a search on 6SN7, 5692 and VT-231 at the Audioasylum.com tube forum and you will see what I mean. It will be fun reading nonetheless. |
