Kiwi, thanks for clarifying that for me! Considering CD's inherent limitations and the challange a cartridge would have tracking it, I doubt many systems could actually produce anything below 20 Hz. |
Unsound,
My understanding (but i'm not an authority on the subject) is the 1st Octave frequency range is 16-32 Hz. Low C on a pipe organ, bottom C on most other keyboards and the large orchestral bass drum live here.
I take your point about bass reinforcement but unless care is taken the room can also diminish the bass effect as well.
I respect Thiel as a designer but i feel speakers of this price range should reach into the 1st Octave so not to lose the enhanced experience the low end can provide.
The employment of speaker ports is probably motivated by consumer demand for smaller speakers. I like you prefer sealed designs.
Thiel has lots of competitors. The latest to join is Le Contourne a French sister company of Lavardin. Their new Stabile 160 is prefered by some to the 3.7. Its cheaper (but not much) and enjoys 17Hz-30KHz range with similar physical dimensions. Side by side you quickly apprecriate how impotent the bass of the CS3.7 really is. |
Kiwi_1282001,
it seems that the Thiels are not alone in there rated bass production on high end, high priced speakers. (Kharma, Eggleston, Focal, Merlin, Sonas Faber, and on and on) Offer similar rated speakers in this price range.
The bass on the 3.7s is really quite nice. Not as pronounced as on my 7.2s but still good. I think if I got the 3.7s I would add a smart sub. But then again i am saving for one to go with my 7.2s and they sound great without one. i like the way the depth of soundstage improves when adding the subs with the Thiels I have heard. Anyway the 3.7s are very good speakers and as good and balanced a speaker as I have heard in that price range. |
Gee, I thought the first ocatave was from 20 to 40 Hz? Thiel's measurements are done in an anechoic chamber, so in real practice most will have some in room bass reinforcement.
I do agree that $10K seems a bit much for the this level of bass output.
While I don't dare challange Jim Thiel on technical issues, I do question Thiel's decisions and trends. First of all, I have trouble understanding why Thiel would abandon sealed boxes for passive radiators and ports. I don't understand how passive radiators and ports can possibly be time and phase coherent, something of a Thiel trademark. I doubt the size and corresponding construction costs and transport challanges associated with a larger sealed box would matter that much to people shopping at the upper end of Thiel's range. In as much as equalizers are a red flag to many audiophiles, Thiel has used them sucessfully in the past to offer full range sealed boxed, relatively easy steady 4 Ohm impedance, 89 dB, modestly sized speakers in the past. Heck, the original CS 3 cost $2K 25 years ago and offered all of the above. Now that Thiel has garned experience with digital amps for their subwoofers, I would have imagined using some sort of digital technology for a modern digitaly updated eq'd CS 3-3.5 would have allowed Thiel to cost effectively offer a product with better performance than the current 3 series. This might be especially true now that Thiel develops all their drivers in house. As Thiel has increased the sensitivity of their speakers the impedance have become lower with time. I would imagine that finding higher powered amps into higher impedances would be less difficult and less expensive than finding lower powered amps that can handle lower impedances. Of course many audiophiles wouldn't even consider a product that has the words "equalizer" and "digital" in their description, even if they offered smaller dimensions, better time and phase coherency, more extended bass response, easier amplification requirements, and built in room tailoring. Damn shame. |
CS 3.7 is not exactly a full range speaker is it? I mean -3dB at 32Hz means you kiss goodbye to your entire first octave. Moreover, in the 2nd Octave Low C on a standard piano is about 32Hz. What is Thiel thinking a 10 grand speaker that needs a sub-woofer? |
Don't ya just love manufactures specs. Just like EPA fuel comsuption for cars - YMMV.
Heard 3.7 at RMAF. There are stiff ompetition at $10k. Yes I think they are butt ugly in a "danger Will Robinson, danger Will Robinson" way. |
FYI,
Thiel and full range:
CS 3.5's -3dB 20 Hz
CS 3.6's -3dB 27 Hz
CS 3.7's -3dB 32 Hz
CS 5's +/-1dB 23 Hz
CS 6's -3dB 27 Hz
CS 7.2's -3dB 23 Hz
|
That's odd. I spoke to someone at Thiel who said there were no plans to replace the 7.2 anytime soon.
The rumors of a replacement for the 3.6 went on for many years before anything actually materialized. So history might suggest that nothing in terms of a single box full-range speaker is just around the corner.
Seems to be more emphasis on home theater in recent years.
Rob |
According to Thiel's web site, the CS 6's were discontinued in March of '07. |
I heard the 3.7 again at the RMAF this year. The system sounded a whole lot better than when I heard them at the Stereophile show in L.A. in June of 2006. But, I am sorry, they still look awefully ugly.
I spoke with the Thiel rep a little bit. They are indeed working on a replacement of 7.2 based on the new technologies from the 3.7. But the model 6 will remain as is.
FrankC |
Thiel went to crutchfield to get a national outlet for his product remember that thiel is in business to make money and from what i read has also lost a few retailers recently , i for one will soon have to travel 60 miles to hear his product (goodbye to buying any more of his products )and so far as the 3.7 is concerned the models i have seen the fit of the aluminum dome on the top have of the speaker sucks ,,you could cut your hand running your fingers on the bottom edge and what a lousy fit ,not for 10 grand ,,its something you would see in a cheap mass market product but thats just my opinion... |
Rumour has it that Thiel is working on a new larger (than the 3.7) flagship model. |
To me it defies logic that the 3.7 would remain their top of the line speaker as it is compact to say the least. I assume this new technology is going to be used to expand into larger models as well, unless the WAF has finally nailed the coffin shut on ever listening to something symphonic through a Thiel speaker again. There's no replacement for displacement. :>) |
In the recent past Thiel's 7.2's have appeared and disappeared on Thiel's web site. Thiel now lists the the 7.2's as one of their discontinued models. Thiel must really think they've got something special with the 3.7's. Since the 3.7's announcement/introduction they've discontinued the previously higher (than the previous 3 series) priced 6's and 7.2's. The 3.7's are now Thiel's top of the line. |
Well I don't get it personally. I used to Sell Thiel on a retail level, and you really need a good high end location, with good sales representation, to exploit the value and selling points to customers, as to why some should pay good money for speakers. I always liked the product overall, owned a couple pair, and it was a good gig.
Now, I dunno! I hope it works out for em. Must have done their homework I suppose.
Anywhooz, I just don't see em selling as many Theils. But what do I know. They could be doing better than ever through Crotchfelt, for all I know. Personally, I think it's the beginning of the end for Thiel, going down this route.
Oh well. It'll be interesting to see how it pans out over time |
And the 7.2 is not listed in the models under production. |
Thiel's updated web site now reports that the new 3.7's are being delivered. |
I spent about 4 hours with a pair on Saturday and I think they are gorgeous. By
far the most handsome speaker Thiel has produced (which isn't saying much),
but far, far better looking IMO than anything from the likes of Revel, Wilson,
Vandersteen, and many others. Mileage will vary, of course. |
Crutchfield is only authorized to sell Thiel online. If you want to see a model, you'll need to go to a local authorized dealer. |
Went to a Crutchfield store and nary a fragment of a vision of a Thiel. Too bad, I wanted to see if the 3.7s looked better in person than in photographs. |
Thiel's site is currently up - perhaps they were just updating the web and experiencing high call volumes for some reason. They did just introduce a new model to much industry hype. |
They are now carried by crutchfield. |
ran a dns traceroute.... there servers are unreachable. Probably just a network anomaly that also took out phone. |
