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What Characteristic Strikes You First About Un-amplified Music?

Folks,

If we were to all just list the aspects of live acoustic sounds that it would be nice to have re-created in our system, I’m sure we could come to much (though not total) agreement that live sound has those characteristics. But the list I’m looking for is one of order: what characteristics seem primary to your own perception?

So with this in mind, the question is: when you actually hear a live person singing or speaking, or a live instrument being played - e.g. sax, acoustic guitar, drums, violin, etc - and compare it to what you are used to in reproduced sound, what aspect of the live sound impresses you most?

Today when I went for lunch there was a guy playing tenor sax on the sidewalk. He was playing in the quiet Stan Getz style. As I often do, I stopped, closed my eyes and pondered "what is it that, with eyes closed, I’m hearing that I just don’t seem to hear when I’m in front of an audio system, eyes, closed, with the same instrument playing?"

And it’s almost always the same thing that sticks out to me: How LARGE the sound is of the real instrument. Even played at really quiet levels, the sax had a presence that was just BIG, and full, and rich, and just expanded to fill the surroundings so easily. So much body to the sound. In comparison, saxophone through the majority of sound systems is like a diminished, squeezed down, reductive toy-version of the real thing.

I experience the same when encountering, say, someone playing violin. It just sounds so much bigger, fuller, richer, thicker than their reproduced counterparts. Even when the player moves to the upper strings and plays the higher notes, the sound does not thin-out and become wiry as it does on a sound-system, it remains big, room filling, bold.

This is why, for me, I’m always impressed when I hear a speaker system that gives some of that thickness and richness to the sound of voices and instruments - for instance how I perceive this quality in certain wide-baffle bigger box speakers. (Though that quality isn’t the whole shooting match, which is why that isn’t my only criteria).

It’s also why I’ve gravitated to tube amps that I perceive to add that extra bit of body, roundness, richness. (I have Conrad Johnson tube amps). Even a nudge in the direction of added body is welcome.

So that’s the first thing that strikes me - it just hits me whether I’m looking for it or not. Others on the list of live voice/instruments can depend more on what I’m concentrating on. One big one is a timbral/organic quality. I often close my eyes when someone is talking nearby and listen to the quality of their voice. The thing that hits me right off is "that just doesn’t sound like any amplified voice I’ve heard." There is an immediately recognizable "human, organic" timbre to the voice that seems distinct from the electronic recreations through speakers - one is made of flesh and blood, the other of electronics, speaker drivers, etc.

Other aspects that hit me about live instruments are: richness in timbral complexity and ’effortless’ detail, in the sense that detail seems so smooth, just ’there to be heard into as deeply in to it as I want to listen, but not hyped." There is a rainbow of timbral complexity to a live band or orchestra that is homogenized in reproduced music. Then there is the solidity and acoustic "presence" - the "thereness" of a real voice or instrument moving acoustic energy in the room so you just perceive a solid object making the sound. This is different from the more airy, see-through imaging in many sound systems, and why I really desire density and palpability in my sound system.

 And...of course...dynamics. I guess that one seems so obvious I left it for last, but we all have the experience of hearing a drum set being played and just instantly recognizing the life-force behind it, that you typically don’t get in reproduced sound.

So, back to my original question of what characteristics of live voices and instruments stand out to you, in comparison to most reproduced sound?


prof

Showing 2 responses by prof

prof OP
3,450 posts
 

There certainly are a lot of variables in live sound. But I have to say the impression I have of the bigger sound from live instruments is very consistent almost no matter where I’m hearing them - be it inside, or outside, close or further away.

As for imaging, I’ve always been puzzled by people who say "imaging doesn’t really happen in real life" the usual example being orchestras.

But I’m sure this impression depends on where we like to sit. I’ve always favoured closer, main floor seating to orchestras and often close my eyes. I find the imaging quite precise. Not "etched" of course, but certainly very easy to point directly to any source of sound.  (And I still find that even from further seats, orchestras continue to "image" quite well).

I think the fact I like closer seating also influences my desire for a system to be able to produce an impression of timbral variety. Sitting closer to instruments (again, an orchestra for reference) tends to highlight the detailed differences in their tone, timbre, materials vs the more homogenizing effects of further seats with more hall sound. So I tend to like music somewhat more closely mic’d than many others might. Another influence is probably not only live sound, but my love of soundtracks. Bernard Herrmann’s music, for instance, tends to be closely mic’d - spotlighting instruments and sections - so you get a really visceral sense of presence and texture which I enjoy.


prof OP
3,450 posts
 

Excellent stuff, soix!

As it happens, I'm both a fan of Joseph Audio (was planning on the Perspectives) AND I own MBL 121 radialstrahler speakers!  (And Thiels, and others...) .  So I have a bit of experience comparing these things.

As for live vs reproduced, the "does it sound live from outside the room" test is always interesting.  For one thing, it's easier to get the sensation that a live player is coming from the sound system from outside the room than from sitting in front of the speakers.   That's because (I surmise) of various factors that make two stereo speakers producing the sensation of a live object in front of you is more challenging given the way stereo information departs from reality, and also when we are directly in front of the speakers there are actually MORE tells that it's reproduced.

In contrast, outside the room you are getting essentially a "mono" signal coming from the room (say, even for a single sax), which is the sound of the speaker combined with the room.   So I find, for instance, often if I play a track with a single well-recorded instrument it can sound fairly convincing, eyes closed, in front of the speakers, but even more so from outside the room played at the right volume level.

Still, though I've used this "does it sound real from outside the room" test many times over the years, certainly not all speakers have sounded equally realistic.

The absolute champ has been my MBL 121 omnis.  I have recordings of, for instance, me playing acoustic guitar, and recordings of my son practicing saxophone.  When I play those through the MBLs and listen from outside the room, it's uncannily convincing.  I've fooled a couple of people with it (who thought my son was in there playing sax).  The MBLs also hold up probably the best in terms of realism when sitting in front of them as well.   

There's a fabulously well recorded album:  Requiem for a Pink Moon: An Elizabethan Tribute to Nick Drake

Which includes a number of Nick Drake tunes played on Elizabethan instruments and in that vocal style.   If you want to hear vocals naturally recorded, in a natural sounding acoustic, I think it's hard to do better.

When I play those tracks with eyes closed on various speakers it's always amazing.  My big Thiel 3.7s in particular sounded incredibly authentic.   But when I play it on my MBLs it just leaps to another level over any regular box speaker.  All those "tells" that the sound is coming from speakers in any direction sense disappear and the acoustic melts in to the room, with dimension and acoustics that seems to stretch realistically "behind" the singers in a way that doesn't with normal box speakers.   It's the most realistic vocal presentation I personally have encountered.  Even the Harbeth speakers I owned, which were suitably renowned for vocals, could not provide that last iota of realism the MBLs seem to provide.


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