The best thing I got out of the review was a keen interest in the Kuzma 4 point. |
The Kuzma 4 point is interesting. I have not heard one yet. There seems to be contradictory statements about it's bass performance. The two reviews I've seen both say the bass is it's strong suit. But I seem to remember a couple of posters on this forum say the bass was soft. Maybe they will chime in.
As with any piece of gear it is best to hear it for yourself. |
Ha, ha! Thanks for your comments, Syntax, you are a rare gem! |
So how have we reached this point?
One of the most respected professional analogue reviewers writing in arguably the pre-eminent audio journal of the day..........compares the Caliburn to the NVS to the Onedorf....all of which were heard in his own system and listening room with identical components including arms and cartridges.
Possibly no-one else on earth has done this identical comparison......yet here we have a rabble.......all of whom have never heard the three tables in question and probably never have heard even one of them in their own systems and listening rooms......voicing their doubts on the veracity of Fremer's views?
Goes hand in hand I suppose.... with their ability to know the sound of an unheard system in an unknown room.....from a passing knowledge of some of the components?
And for those who wish to 'bang' against their turntables whilst listening to music?......please resume normal transmission. |
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Who "bangs" on their TT or any part of their system while listening to music? I own this TT and use the Wave Kinetics base and I can tell you it does an incredible job of isolating the TT from the rest of the environment. I didn't realize that a finger tapping owner needed to be part of the isolation process. The base made a very noticeable improvement in the bass region. Tightened and solidified the bass presentation. |
Halcro, you are so right! On the other hand Syntax has added a list of hypes I would agree on with the exception of the Continuum. Thanks to MF we are able to share our own experiences with the tables and gear he reviewed. If we do not agree with his findings it may be because of the gear we are prefering, e.g. in the case of the Boulder Phono 2008 many audiophiles prefer tube based phono stages. But the 2008 is a wonderful instrument as is the Continuum as well.
Be honest, which writer compares units on his rich experience background and is balancing pros and contras? Of course MF like to pose, why not? There are not many lighthouses left at audio magazines.
Fun Only |
To add my own 2 cents' worth, I'm running a direct rim drive with air bearing linear tracking arm, on a wall shelf. Yes, when I tap the plinth effects can be heard thru the stylus, but overall sound quality is way beyond my previous belt drive/pivoted arm which had much more substantial isolation.
What I can say is that speed stability over the course of an lp side is audibly more correct than belt, augmented by lack of arm related tracking errors.
"Hearing" accurate unvarying speed is like the music being 'faster' ie more dynamic, and 'slower' ie more relaxed, ALL AT THE SAME TIME! |
Welcome back Thuchan,
I have missed you......and I really miss seeing your wonderful collection of vintage and modern audio equipment on your Systems Page.
Any chance of it returning?
Do you have any new great discoveries?
Regards |
I agree with Halcro's basic sentiments, BUT what I would like to see Fremer do is to use a garden variety but generally well recognized tt as a "control" in his listening experiments. Then perhaps the vast majority of us who cannot and never will hear any of the 3 megabuck tt's in his own system can really appreciate what might be gained by doing so. Or, if he is capable of truly objective opinions, we would find out that one or another of the most expensive turntables in the world is really not up to snuff. I suspect there is a pretender or two among them, but we will never know about it, because S'phile and the audio press in general "protects" them.
I once exchanged a few direct emails with Fremer. He is really a nice guy, but he could not see that his owning the Caliburn must make him at least subconsciously biased in its favor. Or, to take the Raul line of argument, he has found in the Caliburn at device that colors the sound in a way that he prefers. Thus the Caliburn will win all shoot-outs in his system. This is perfectly all right on a personal level but does not benefit those who hang on his every word. |
Halcro, No one is infallible. Even Fremer. Do you accept as gospel everything he prints?
I enjoy his writing and do appreciate his contribution to analog and audio. His reviews are better than most and I like the fact that he compares gear with his reference gear. He is not afraid to write what he thinks either. This does not mean I have to agree with everything he writes.
I did not see where anyone disagreed with his conclusions regarding the comparison between those three tables. Not that it matters but I have heard the NVS several times and the Onedof once. It is impossible to make any real comparisons as they were not in the same system. I would like to hear the Continuum.
I find it counter productive to put too much stock in one mans opinion. I have been burned before as most of you have I'm sure. Everybody has different tastes and preferences. |
"Welcome back Thuchan,
I have missed you......and I really miss seeing your wonderful collection of vintage and modern audio equipment on your Systems Page.
Any chance of it returning?
Do you have any new great discoveries"?
Me too.
Nice to read your post again. |
Dear Lewm: +++++ " Thus the Caliburn will win all shoot-outs in his system. " +++++
well you put in the right short words and tha's exactly what I want to express through my posts.
The problems he detected with the Onedof and NVS are problems with both TTs but he can't imagine/figure in any way that the real " problems " maybe came from the Caliburn that's not so " perfect " as he thinks.
I'm in agreegment with you and with Halcro regarding that almost no one could have the opportunity to have those three TTs in the same system to make an evalutaion but to agree on this fact does not means I have to believe on the " perfect " MF.
Regards and enjoy the music,
R. |
In the other side it is " weird " that every time that appears a thread about NVS TT ( like the one that was deleted. ) the same persons post almost the same trying to diminish the NVS TT. This thread is no exception and obviously as some of us already know exist a specific " agenda " from this group.
Yes I'm refering to the German group.
Some Agoners already suffered first hand the direct actions coming from a member of that group where between other things are especialist to clone today audio products speaking as his own design: the same cloning speakers that electronics too.
After some time we now see them again in Agon, now that " the water return to calm " and that maybe they think: " every thing was forgotten ".
Take care all of you.
R. |
If one was seriously considering the NVS, Onedof and Caliburn, it seems that the NVS is the best choice simply because I think there is only one Onedof in existence and I read somewhere that the Caliburn is close to going out of production. May just be an internet rumor, and I'm not helping by passing it along, but in terms of production tables, the NVS seems the most viable.
I understand that the Technics MK3 is competitive, but that is also very difficult to acquire. Are there any NVS dealers on the East Coast? |
In MF's original review of the Onedof, in which he compared it one on one to the Caliburn, I was rather taken aback by some of the "features" of the Onedof. Apparently the whole turntable is based on a novel idea for a platter bearing, and that part of the tt works well. But some of the other aspects of the turntable, e.g., the platter design and build, were not so impressive as the bearing, IMO. It's got the LOOKS of a very expensive turntable, but I did not get the feeling that the maker has been studying turntable design for a long time or that he had other novel ideas besides the one that gave rise to the bearing. In summary, why is the Onedof in this "top 3" at all? Perhaps only because of its audacious asking price. Among tt's of similar conception (separate "pods"), is the Onedof any better than a TOTL Simon Yorke or a Da Vinci or a Transrotor or you name it? |
Thanks a lot Halcro and Audpulse. I was not really away but rather busy, also establishing a small blog ( www.Audio16.com ) regarding walking on some paths in audio I wanted to follow on together with my friend in Paris. I will never forget the fantastic exchanges with you and the other analogue afficiniados on this site. On the other hand I could not develop my Systems Page on Audiogon anymore. I had discussions with the technical people over three months.
I see not so many has changed, Raul is still the captain of MM, all Germans in analogue belong to one group of... and we are still a very sensitive group regarding novelties. Maybe the rules on Audiogon have changed a bit, I don't know who is in charge running the 'let it go' or 'delete'? Hopefully tolerance will return.
When I am now investing in a new TT I am more carefully checking the pros and cons beforehand. In the past I owned some tables I got interested in quickly, like the Goldmund, the Kelch Reference II, the Garrard 501 etc. All this tables had something I liked very much and it was a lot of fun and pleasure testing them in my own chain. I sold all. Don't get me wrong, these are good tables but did not fullfill all of my requirements. You need selling otherwise you run out of space and missing the chance of testing new contenders. This week I said goodbuy to my Naka, it will find a fine home in NY. Now what is next?
Honestly saying no TT of the ones mentioned in this thread draws my real exitement. I am not driven by price only! And maybe some TTs, like the Onedof deserves to stay as one unit at least. I think it is crazy calling for 150.000 bucks for such a design. And we are crazy somehow being pushed into this direction nearly only because of the price tag. I was wondering why Mike Fremer did a test of the Onedof. The Continuums offer much more technology and musicality than most people think. They need to be installed properly, they never were on shows. From my point of view the company missed to bring a smaller version in the 20.000 Dollar region. This is were some people can and will buy, me too. I exchanged many ideas with Halcro on this company topic as he was engaged for a while.
Small progress is progress, too. Who is interested may have a look at my blog which also offers some insight into vintage designs, very rare ones - by my friend. and maybe there will be another big table - some day...
Only Fun |
Thuchan, Congratulations on your blog. It is quite nice and has some great information. Thank you for the link. |
Thank you Peter, I like the two sides of modern and vintage topics most. It may also show that people with (slightly) different preferences are able to exchange ideas rather than to fight the church style way.
best & fun only |
When I am now investing in a new TT I am more carefully checking the pros and cons beforehand. In the past I owned some tables I got interested in quickly, like the Goldmund, the Kelch Reference II, the Garrard 501 etc. All this tables had something I liked very much and it was a lot of fun and pleasure testing them in my own chain. I sold all. Don't get me wrong, these are good tables but did not fullfill all of my requirements. You need selling otherwise you run out of space and missing the chance of testing new contenders. This week I said goodbuy to my Naka, it will find a fine home in NY. Now what is next?
Yes and then you mount the Kuzma Airline on the Goldmund and voila !
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why not Andrewona, good idea!
best & fun only |
I must have missed Fremer's thoughts on the NVS in Stereophile. Can anyone post a link, or paraphrase his opinions. Thanks. |
Spirit, By now that review ought to be in the public domain. Try the S'phile website or the NVS website. |
... the Goldmund, the Kelch Reference II, the Garrard 501 etc. All this tables had something I liked very much and it was a lot of fun and pleasure testing them in my own chain. I sold all. Don't get me wrong, these are good tables.... No, they aren't. And I know why. But when you didn't discover it, well, then roll the dice again ... |
