While i was doing dishes the other day and i had a idea to try heating my AIVS cleaning solutions before i apply them to the record. I thought well warm or hot water works better for cleaning your dishes or your car, i wonder if warm cleaning fluids would be better for cleaning albums. Now i don't mean to the boiling point but just warm the cleaning fluid by setting the bottle in hot water for 5 min. before it is used. I have not tried it yet but does anyone know if this would ruin the enzyme cleaning fluid? Todd
Sounds like a great idea to me. Strange that this never occured to me:-). Especially since I've been thinking about the whole steaming idea. No idea whether it would effect the enzymes, but my first thought is that it would help speed up their action. No time to try tonight, but it seems like a good experiment if nothing else...
Excessively high temps can absolutely denature protein and ruin the cleaning fluid. If you are planning to bring the temp up to say something like body temp, shouldn't be a problem. Within limits, reactions proceed more rapidly at higher temps so your idea is not unsound...just need to be careful how far you take things. Will you hear a benefit from using a warmed cleaning solution? Not sure.
hi Todd Excessive warming might indeed damage an enzyme-based record wash but I wouldn't know what the maximum safe temperature could be. As Ghosthouse says, body temperature might be alright? It would probably be best to call the manufacturer for specific advice. Consider the consumption of raw fruits; a benefit is the presence of enzymes which are effectively destroyed as little as 100 degrees F. Cooked vegetables suffer the same potential for degradation; however I'm guessing that they may be heated to a somewhat warmer temperature?
that is one of the functions of the steaming. It does raise the temperature of the fluid. Usually increasing temps does increase the effectiveness of cleaning. Damage to enzymes cleaners might occur (you have to consult the manufacturer of the fluid) but if it cleans better warm vs cold, do you really care if the fluid is damaged? it gets sucked up anyway. i would not heat up the entire container, just what goes on the record. I alway include a steaming step as part of my record deep cleaning.
I think what Oildude is suggesting is that once the (unheated, or at most body temperature) enzymes have finished their work of breaking down the surface dirt, then the steam heating shouldn't matter anyway; that seems reasonable enough. Just don't heat up your entire bottle of record wash as that would likely destroy the enzyme-cleaning properties. The process intrigues me enough to be interested in "trying this at home".
I asked Paul Frumkin this very question years ago when he was developing the Audio Intelligent enzyme solution. He did some research on it and told me essentially what others have posted here - it's not necessary and will break down the enzymes in the solution.
I do however, use steam following the enzyme soak. I let the enzyme solution work for about 5 minutes and then steam for about 3-4 revolutions onthe VPI before vacuuming off the fluids.
I follow it with a double rinse or the ultra-pure water and have never, ever, had better results.
The reason i was thinking warming the fluid might help cleaning is i have several 30 year old direct to disc lp's that i cannot remove what i think is mold release wax . I have cleaned them using AIVS fluids. Some of these have been cleaned 20 times using AIVS and steam. But when i play them i hear alot of pops. So i looked at the areas that made the pops under a 30x handheld microscope and i see a crystal like deposit . Multiple cleanings have removed some of it but some still remains. I have ordered up some Micro Care Premier cleaning fluid with the hope this will remove these deposits. I wish i could some how get a picture of what i see under the microscope. Whatever this deposit is it leaves a white powder on the stylus. So i was just hoping maybe by heating the cleaning fluids that it might help to lift this deposit.
That sounds like an excellent example of why many of us keep several types of cleaners around. At least you know you can remove it because you have already. Now it is just a matter of finding the right cleaner.
I used to think about warming up the enzyme solution. But frankly I think it would need much more heat than has been talked about here to realize any difference, and that would probably be counter productive. IMO
Are you sure what you're seeing isn't paper? I've come across a handful of records over the years exactly like what you're describing that have "contaminated" vinyl with bits of cardboard and paper in the vinyl.
I can only assume that they were pressed during the oil-embargo 70's era when so many plants were recycling vinyl and labels, etc. got in the mix.
It very well could be paper on some but not all, cause some lp's have plastic liners. I just received the Premier record cleaner and have just tried cleaning the album with the worst deposits and no luck it didn't seem to touch it . These albums were sealed for about 30 years so what ever it is has had a long time to bond with the album.
I have even let the albums soak for 3 hrs in the AIVS enzyeme solution, and no luck. Now i will try heating the fluid first, who knows. Todd
Besides AIVS, steam, and the Premier cleaning fluid - have you tried anything else? Just wondering if a water/alcohol/detergent-based DIY cleaner (as others have posted here) might help. 7 parts distilled water + 1 part water IPA (not rubbing alcohol, however) by volume + 1 drop Dawn, in say 250 mls total volume is what I use in conjunction with AIVS and steam. I use the water/IPA/detergent followed by steam as pre-cleaning ahead of the AIVS.
No - I didn't mean paper from the sleeves they are stored in, although that's certainly possible that some has bonded to the vinyl depending on how they were stored; what I was talking about is bits of paper from labels that got mixed in with the recycled vinyl when the records were pressed.
I have found several examples with paper and cardboard bits actually embedded in the vinyl.
I use commercial and homebrew recipe cleaners and found the use of a steaming step helps the cleaning effect of the cleaner. My homebrew is distilled water, detergent (i have used dawn dishwashing detergent, commercial cleansers/degreasers, and recently enzyme based cleaner), and alcohol. I apply the solution cold to the record, use a brush to spread solution, then use the steamer to heat the liquid, followed by a good scrubbing with the brush. I vacuum that followed by a good rinse and vac. Sometimes, if the disk is pretty grungy, i will let the solution sit on the album for a few minutes before and after the steaming. Takes a little longer but sometimes the extra time helps remove more of the gunk. I think just as important as the cleaning is the rinse. I have found some of the white stuff you can find in the grooves is water scale from hard or impure water. Vacuuming actually can cause this if you evaporate the water versus "sucking" it up. Found this out the hard way early in my attempts to clean records.
Am in the process of reviewing a few cleaning fluids and asked Jim Pendleton the same question since enyzme activity is temperature, ionic strength, metal, cofactor, etc dependent. Jim said that the activity of the "industrial" enzymes used, at least in the one step cleaner, are temperature independent.
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