Wall Outlet Oyaide, Furutek, Wattgate, and others

Also I have the Sound Application RLS 6 Outlets it´s necessary Upgrade the respectacle by Furuteck GTX-D ?

Ok
I will go for the Furuteck FI50 US plugs/ IEC
And Respectacle Furuteck GTX-D outlets

But I didn't make my decision if it´s gold or Rodium.

Thank's for all

Mehdi, forgot to add that, if you haven't already, you may want to take a look at this;
Audiophile AC Power Outlet Comparisons

I have discussed power outlets with an audio equipment manufacturer who likes the Furutech GTX-D (G) outlets. Not sure all that he has tried but he definitely likes the Furutech outlets. I use Porter Ports and have no complaints, but have not tried either the Furutech or Oyaide.

Regarding resistance, I recently had a high current amplifier rebuilt for me and when selecting power cords I chose a good sounding Neotech cord (using OCC wire, double shielding, etc.) but the cord I had was "only" 11 awg so I asked the builder whether I needed a larger gauge cord and he replied that the 11 gauge size was more than large enough.

I think audiophiles sometimes believe their gear needs more current than is actually necessary. For example, even the largest high current Class A amps I have owned only had 8 amp fuses, even though I ran them off of dedicated 20 amp lines, one for each monoblock. It is my understanding that it would be unusual for amplifiers to draw that amount of current and certainly not for any sustained period of time. The actual current needed for playing music is much lower but in the larger amps the power supply capacitors can discharge larger amounts of current for transient demands.

I do believe stable power is important so my recommendation is always to put money into dedicated audio lines (before buying fancy power cords) so you don't have to worry about lights or refrigerators powering on while playing music. One thing I did with my amp was to have the builder hard wire the Neotech power cord (I know...retro) because I believed that by starting with a pretty high quality cord in the first place, my next best upgrade would be to eliminate a plug and IEC entirely. It also helps me resist the temptation to buy new power cords!

Mehdi, This is funny, I was in deep thought about changing the terminations Of my Tara Labs Cobalt power cord, My cobalt has Oyaide terminations, however, I discovered the model is oyaide p-079 and c-079, not bad sounding at all really, But believing state of the art terminations, if it's Oyaide or furetech, would be hugely beneficial, alot cheaper than buying a whole new power cable, I could be the only audiophile out there to have a custom Tara Labs Cobalt power cord, If I did this, of course I would get Tara Labs To do the termination, they say, alot of a cables sound depends on the quality of plugs and IEC, If this was not true, why does Tara Labs themselfs offer this power cord in either wattgate or oyaide?, this model oyaide on my power cord is extreme resolution with a touch of warmth, so I do not know exactly what would be a good match, I would have to consult with chris Vanhaus of VH-audio for opinions if I decide to do such a possible up-grade?

Mehdi, It depends if you need a more forward presatation that Rhodium does, The gold will give a little more laid back sound, which is what I like, I believe the FI50 Gold would be spot on, power cables already give a little imeadiate presatation to me, I would hate it if the sound was in my face at all times, that would cause listener fatigue to me, so my opinion would be, go Furetech gold fI50.

Hi

For The Elrod Statement Gold yours vote GO to Furuteck FI48 or FI50?
Gold or Rodium?

http://www.hubbellcatalog.com/wiring/datasheet.asp?PN=HBL5361

Side and back mounts for wire. You can clamp just the bare wire. All brass non ferrous. The parts/screws that are magnetic you can replace with brass. 6-8 US on Ebay and then you can have a whole bucket full cryo'd for cheap. These sound really good. Lower resonance than a standard duplex. Tom

I decided on getting the furetech GTX-D recepticle gold, the spring clamping and the way the conductor is put in a hole on the back, then tighten the screw on the side all the way down on the raw electrical conductor was the deciding factor to me, I believe this will sound better just by the way it is designed, cheers.

I would like to know, what is better, The best Furetech or the best Oyaide recepticle, I researched them, they are very similiar, the one thing I cannot come to terms with is the fact neither recepticle has a isolated ground on them, and at the asking price, that's really inadequete!

I was thinking about my post above regarding plating. I got this off the Cardas web site.

"Materials: All of our male RCA plugs are machined from brass. Contact surfaces are plated with silver, silver with a rhodium flash, or gold. Outer barrels are plated with silver or gold. Dielectric is FEP."

If you read above, a brass rca connector is plated with silver. After that, they plate it again with gold or rhodium. That's 3 different metals. So if you buy either a gold or rhodium connector, it has a silver plate underneath that you are probably not aware of. I'm wondering how much that intermediate plate has on sound quality.

Once upon a time on a similar thread these words came off my finger tips.

I purchased single outlet Hubbell 6361's less resonance I believe, all brass and copper save for some external mounting and one terminal screw which I replaced for brass. I had these triple cyro'd and ordered single gang stainless [virtually non magnetic] steel mounting plates. $6 for each of the outlets $6 for the plates and 20 bucks for the cryo for the 10 I had treated. In the past I found some name brand Gucci priced duplex's that were suppose to be entirely non ferrous, non magnetic. Guess what with the aid of a neodymium magnet I made the internal parts hop around so they were not as written non magnetic. I sent all these back. Some complain that copper based alloys may oxidize and wear more quickly the single plugs are always full and never unplugged. All my power cords use copper connectors as well so I may never see or hear the affects of galvanic corrosion. I believe in the synergy of using the same materials.Tom

"I do not want to destroy a 3- dimensional sound!"

Anyone who messes up a 3D sound has to deal with Bo. He won't put up with anything under 3 dimensions.

Hi Sabai, welcome to the thread, Is the rhodium forward sounding, I do not want to destroy a 3- dimensional sound!

I am getting A very naturel Sound with this réceptacle And still breaking in Hubbell... The5362W...😎.. the one i think i Was looking for....😜

Audiolabyrinth,

I have tried both gold and rhodium IEC inlets. I was surprised when I heard the gold veiling the sound. Out it came and back in went the rhodium.

this réceptacle " Hubbell HBL5362w" had been connected only two days´ It´s feeding my Sound application And i CAN say it gives back the joy that you may have lost in the past.. i Will not take it off
Nor replace it.. It´s by far very impressif very clean Sound And dark Back ground...👍..still breaking in Much better than my Old réceptacle "oyaide R1".. Imo with my system...And i dare say the best is yet to Côme .. Best valu for money... Have a try..!!!!👏... Will give you a full feed-Back later... Thx.

Thanks chahed, I look forward to your impressions.

Hi audiolabyrinth..!.. I have just received my récepticale this morning And it´s similaire to the one used in my Sound application the only différence is the color " white"i Will see once i change it against the one already on the wall "oyaide R1" but that could take a week before making any jugement
It needs to Break in Will let you know only Time Will help to find out if Hubbell is the Ferrari of all the réceptacles or not. Thx for being patiente

Thanks Al, for your always swift and to the point responses! As for contact cleaners, I use DeoxIt Gold for AC and Stabilant 22 for audio signal connections.

Bought a set of Oyaide M1/F1 to see if they fit in my system

Almarg, check out that thread about up-grading rca connections, a member posted that he used weed eater line inside the cable around his conductors, LOL!, no, this is not a joke, I hope it's not, maybe, He seemed serious about the improved sound!

06-21-14: Jazzonthehudson
To Almarg: as for reducing the resistance, should one consider soldering the joints additionally?

My guess is that use of a good contact cleaner would provide the same benefits (if any) that soldering would. As I indicated earlier:

The basic point to my previous post was to provide a quantitative perspective on the differences in resistance that were cited .... I believe that if in fact there are differences in the behavior of those outlets that are audibly perceptible to some listeners in some systems, the differences in resistance that were indicated in the reference are very unlikely to be the reason. And even if there is a difference and resistance is the reason, the difference could work in either direction (good or bad), depending on the happenstance of the line voltage at the particular location and on the design of the particular components.

Also, I would have some concern that applying enough heat to the terminals of an outlet for solder to flow properly, given that the outlet's internal conductors and the heavy gauge power wiring will conduct a good deal of that heat away, might result in internal damage to the outlet. Not something I would want to take any chances with.

IMO. Other opinions may differ, of course.

Regards,
-- Al

After having great experience with Furutech GTX-R, I have now replaced all wall outlets with them for all my systems and maybe replace those in the power conditioners as well (not that easy as I have Audience PC).

I would appreciate more comparisons between the GTX-R and the Oyaide R1, thanks!

IME, the ROI of upgrading wall sockets is much higher than spending $$$ on power cables.

To Almarg: as for reducing the resistance, should one consider soldering the joints additionally? On a related topic: I have soldered all the connections in my speakers (leaving the spades connectors in their original positions) with Cardas Quad Eutectic and got a noticeable improvement in sound.

Hi Cahed, I look forward to what you have to say,what Oyaide do you have?

Hey, If this thread becomes TOO "reasonable" I'll have to stop following it. How about some good old fashioned vitriol, recrimination and name calling? Are we becoming genteel in our old age?

Hi Mehdi..!.. I have just ordered an AC outlet HUBBELL HBL 5363 w.
I Will have it hope fully next week.. Apparently i need an other week for breaking in And i would say i may be able to give my p. View. It cost only 32 $ if you buy it from Cabledyne .. I already use oyaide And i am going to see if it´s a good AC wall outlet.. I promesse to whom it may be interesting that i shall give an Honest answer And hope that Will help .

Hi Dave,

Yes, I think we are pretty much in agreement at this point. Apologies if some of my comments came across as a poke in the eye; that certainly wasn't my intent.

I would emphasize that since the contribution to impedance that is caused by inductance ("inductive reactance," which is measured in ohms) is directly proportional to frequency, and increased inductance in the power wiring may therefore be helpful to some degree with respect to reduction of high frequency noise, that potential benefit may trade off against the ability of the power wiring to quickly respond to abrupt changes in demand for current. Such as the brief high current spikes we have referred to, which as I indicated may contain significant frequency components up to tens of kHz, or perhaps even more in some circumstances.

I would expect that concern to generally be greatest in the case of power amplifiers or integrated amplifiers whose output stages operate in Class AB or Class D, for which AC current demand fluctuates widely with the dynamics of the music.

Regarding the first question in your last post, I can't provide a knowledgeable answer.

Good one re taxes :-)

Best regards,
-- Al

Hello Al ... thanks for your enlightenment and how do you get your posts up so quick ... mine seem to take forever ..

I couldn’t agree more with both your posts about a point of diminishing returns and how going to far can be detrimental ... also at certain levels things can be insignificant and irrelevant

I seemed to have gotten off course when I received a poke in the eye with a sharp stick over my comment

The most important thing in your power delivery system is “low series resistance

It appears you support this point with your comment

In a local (in-house) power distribution system, however, impedance at 60 Hz will be dominated by resistance. Inductance and capacitance will become more significant at the frequencies of the much higher frequency components of the AC waveform

I never meant to imply that L and C were irrelevant ... only that R was more of a concern when looking at all 3 ... the reason being is rising series resistance would also increase Impedance

And, yes, resistance in series will add to impedance.

And the last piece of the puzzle is high or low Impedance ...

In answer to your last question, the impedance of the power delivery system should be low,

The enemy of my enemy is my friend ... Sun Tzu ... doesn’t inductance act as a low pass filter allowing low frequencies to pass while presenting a rising Impedance to frequencies as they rise ... I think that’s what you are saying

at least at frequencies up to and somewhat beyond the frequency components corresponding to the brief high current spikes that have been mentioned. (Series impedance that is high at frequencies greater than that may be helpful in reducing noise, but I would not expect an outlet to play much of a role in that regard).

OK so the outlet may not play a significant role in reducing RF.. but isn’t the Inductance of the cabling our friend in helping defeat some RF ?

My comments' are much more theory based to try and understand which direction things move in and their possible effects where as you’ve run the numbers and can speak from a practical stand point of the value of those numbers ... but it seems we agree

Increase series resistance will raise impedance and we would prefer to have a deliver system with a low Impedance

Now I would like to share some incite with you ....

If you want to teach your grandchildren about taxes ... eat 30 percent of their Ice Cream (;-

Best Dave

Nice!, Very good post gentleman, I enjoy learning from both of you Dave and AL, cheers.

Hi Dave,

To answer your questions clearly, I should probably first state that “60 Hz AC power" consists of a vast number of different frequency components. The highest amplitude/biggest of them is the 60 Hz component, of course. But there are also components at much higher frequencies corresponding to the brief high current spikes you mentioned earlier, probably extending up to tens of kHz, particularly in the case of power amplifiers. And there are frequency components at integral multiples of 60 Hz (i.e., 120 Hz, 180 Hz, 240 Hz, etc.) corresponding to harmonic distortion that will be present in the waveform to some degree. And there are essentially an infinite number of low level frequency components corresponding to noise, extending up into the RF region.

In answer to your questions, yes, strictly speaking a “resistance” at any frequency other than zero Hz (i.e., DC) should be referred to as “impedance,” which reflects a combination of resistance, inductance, and capacitance. And, yes, resistance in series will add to impedance.

In a local (in-house) power distribution system, however, impedance at 60 Hz will be dominated by resistance. Inductance and capacitance will become more significant at the frequencies of the much higher frequency components of the AC waveform. But I would not expect the inductance and capacitance of an outlet to have a great deal of significance in relation to the inductance and capacitance of the power cords and the house wiring. Everything else being equal, the inductance, capacitance, and resistance of conductors are proportional to length (although of course everything else is rarely precisely equal).

In answer to your last question, the impedance of the power delivery system should be low, at least at frequencies up to and somewhat beyond the frequency components corresponding to the brief high current spikes that have been mentioned. (Series impedance that is high at frequencies greater than that may be helpful in reducing noise, but I would not expect an outlet to play much of a role in that regard).

**HOWEVER**, for any design parameter that should be low there exists a point beyond which further minimization will:

1)Be overkill, that increases cost but accomplishes nothing, and/or

2)Be negligible in relation to the contributions of other things in the path that also contribute to the parameter, and/or

3)Be accomplished at the expense of other parameters that may be significant.

The basic point to my previous post was to provide a quantitative perspective on the differences in resistance that were cited in the reference you provided. Consistent with my comments above and in that post, I believe that if in fact there are differences in the behavior of those outlets that are audibly perceptible to some listeners in some systems, the differences in resistance that were indicated in the reference are very unlikely to be the reason. And even if there is a difference and resistance is the reason, the difference could work in either direction (good or bad), depending on the happenstance of the line voltage at the particular location and on the design of the particular components.

Regarding your mention of matching of metallurgy, that is outside of my areas of expertise and I have no particular comments.

Regards,

-- Al

Al .. I haven’t been completely “Transparent” about my obsession with series resistance ...

My original post was nothing but an attempt to offer some incite on matching the metallurgy of the power cord to the wall outlet for a better compatibility

Any body that can afford Elrod Diamond series and PAD 25th anniversary certain has the ware with all to move above Hubble and Pass Seymour

When I stumbled upon the Receptilock I was intrigued by the advanced looking body shell which looks like ground up purpose built and intoxicated by the low resistance and grip numbers vs the other well known outlets

So why my obsession with low series resistance ... isn’t resistance equated with the DC side ... if we were talking about AC current ... wouldn’t we refer to the opposing force against the signal as “Impedance” and not Resistance

With my very limited knowledge I’m guessing that if you know the L/C/R values you can calculate Impedance ... and if you held the L and C values dead fixed in place and varied the R value ... then Impedance would swing in the same direction as series resistance ... If the resistance goes up and L and C are held constant ... wouldn’t impedance go up and vice versa

Let me ask this .. if series resistance rises does impedance also rise and do I want a power deliver component with a high or higher Impedance or a low or lower impedance for current delivery
.

My outlets normally read 126 to 128 volts.

Keith (Audiolabyrinth), take a look at this reference, particularly Table 1 on page 2. You'll see that the standard for 120 volt service (at the entrance to the house) is 120 volts +/- 5%, corresponding to a range of 114 volts to 126 volts.

Regards,
-- Al

very good post Almarg, I did not know that a/c voltages could be, and likly higher than 120 volts, if that is true, and I'm sure you have proof, that would change my perspective on the out come of resistance specs for plugs, power cords, and recepticles that you have said here, does it matter?, mmmm, I am learning the opinions from the community, cheers.

Regarding the comments about resistance and voltage drop, as I see it a couple of things should be kept in mind:

1)In the "New Heavyweight Contender" link which Dave provided, the highest resistance shown for any of the receptacles listed is 2.7 milliohms. That is 0.0027 ohms. Even for a large current spike of say 20 amps, that would result in a voltage drop of only 20 x 0.0027 = 0.054 volts (about one-twentieth of a volt). For components other than power amplifiers which draw large amounts of current, the resulting voltage drop would be way less than that.

Given typical gauges and lengths of the house wiring, turning on a 60 watt light bulb that is on the same circuit as the audio system, or leaving a low powered line-level audio component in the system turned on while it is not being used, will result in the AC voltage decreasing by about as much or more than 0.054 volts.

Furthermore, for audio components having regulated power supplies (although that excludes most power amplifiers), that very tiny voltage reduction will be reduced much more by the voltage regulator circuitry in the component.

2)Presumably there is a specific line voltage at which a particular component will sound its best, say 120.0 volts for example. If the AC voltage at the particular location happens to be higher than whatever that number happens to be for a specific component (and it is extremely common these days for AC voltages to be significantly higher than 120 volts), minimizing resistance and consequently voltage drop in the receptacle, the power plug, the power cord, etc., may actually degrade the sound, if it makes any difference at all.

Regards,
-- Al

@ Minddr, Great post and comparisons with the recepticles, I believe my first choice still remains what I will buy, The Oyaide R-1 recepticle, It's a good all around recepticle, and the post about how so many users like it keep pouring in here!, do you have Rhodium plated or gold plated?, Have you listened to the differences in sound between these two metals?, If so, what's you impressions?

>> I understood it completely<<

I guess there's a first time for everything

I too bought the Oyaide R-1 from Chris @ VH Audio to replace the Shunyata SR-Z1 outlet that I had been using for awhile. Man, the R-1 spanked the Z1 right out of the box!! What a HUGE DIFFERENCE!! It was like an upgrade to a higher end amp or preamp! I CANNOT recommend it more HIGHLY! Well worth the money & get the Carbon Fiber/aluminum wall plate to go with it. I"ve heard that there is even MORE to be had by using this wallplate. Read the reviews for it. Jonathan Hart

Great post Davehrab, I undestood it competly!, good stuff., thankyou, cheers.

Ozzy .. the price listed in the Lit. is 180? ... not sure if the ? is US dollars or Euro .. also need to check on shipping tariffs and taxes before there is any surprises from Europe

Assuming their resistance and grip figures are genuine this could be a real contender ... I don’t put much credence in the listening evaluation comparisons as that is more a subjective opinion where as the resistance and grip numbers are objective measurements

The other red flag is the use of the phrase “Pure Copper Conductors’ ... that might be a bit soft to work with so I would be interest in knowing which alloy Tin or Phosphorus/bronze they are based on ... my preference is beryllium like in my R1s and PS Audio Premier Ports

I think the word “Copper” is loosely interpreted and can lose something in translation from a foreign manufacture ... Pacific rim mfgers often use the word “Red Copper” to refer to the premium grade alloy they use ... but I believe the Red Copper is only Phosphorous Bronze and not the higher quality Beryllium grade alloy

If anybody can tech this one out it’s you Ozzy ... go get em Dog

Zd542 ... it’s not that difficult to understand and has been around since the days of Edison ... put some current through a resister and you will get a voltage drop ... a voltage drop = signal loss .. signal loss = information gone forever

Our components draw power off the peaks of the sine wave and in bursts ... it is not like water that is constantly flowing evenly out of a faucet ... it only draws current when it’s needed and how much it needs but if it isn’t there when it’s needed because resistance has reduced the voltage ... well then you stepped in the stream but the water passed you by

Should be Clear as Vodka now
.

If low series resistance is the most important thing in power delivery, then why didn't someone do it sooner? Its a fairly simple concept.

Any idea what it costs?

I just ordered Porter Ports- much better time spent on other things imo.

@ Davehrab, If this receptilock recepticle is any thing like the company says it is, I will buy it NOW!, However, who has used it here, and can give honest impressions of the sound, good or bad, instead of what the company claims!

“Because it is what I close to believe”

A lot of mfgers are now offering cables that are 7 and 9 gauge ... why so big ? Would they go through all the effort and expense for no benefit and what is the benefit of going to a larger gauge

Every thing in the chain from the power company to your component lies in series with the other connecting components

Unlike IC and speaker cables that must be driven by a low impedance source’s to a high impedance load’s and can be impacted by the LCR reactants ... power deliver components just sit there as a connection between two point acting as a bridge would in connecting the north and south banks of a river
.

"The most important thing in your power delivery system is “low series resistance”"

How do you know that?

Here’s a new contender for your consideration ... New Heavy Weight Contender

Everything in your power deliver circuit sits in series from your panel box through your dedicated line to your outlet and to the power cord and component ... it all lies in series

The most important thing in your power delivery system is “low series resistance” ... look at the specs on this new Heavy Weight Contender’s resistance against two of the other giants in the industry

Aterburner 8 replaced Oyaide. More organic sounding.

When you guys are talking about the different metals for all the different outlets and connectors, do you consider the plating process? I know that you can't always plate over some metals directly and have to plate more than once. For example, lets say you want to plate some brass connectors with gold. Before you do the gold plate, you may have to plate the connector with another metal like nickle first, and then do the gold. (To be clear, I don't know if you have to do this with plating gold on copper. I'm just using it as an example.)

My Elrod Statement Gold used Oyaide F1/M1 I'm ready for Oyaide R1
And for my Viola SS used Ellrod Diamond PC with Bucchino or Furuteck ? R or G ? Plugs and IEC and R or G ? Which wall outlet Furuteck ?

Thanks for your opinion and nice recommandation.q