VTA my compromise in setting

Happy Day After Thanksgiving dekay

I had a Gold Prestige and liked it before I started using a Sonata and then a Master wood body . 

I only know the weight because I use my wife's food scale which I use for the records and making chocolate chip cookies . For $10.00 ! at Amazon you might check it out .

I set VTA to what the major majority of my 2000, or so, LP's are thickness wise (I don't know the weight).

My SME 3009 II non-improved is not completely level to the platter, but it's close and sounds fine.

As mentioned, I never experienced sound differences with slight VTA variations until I started using Grado.

I have Silver and Gold Grado Prestige bodies and the removable OEM styli appear to be the same.

The Silver and Gold sound the same to me, though the Gold had a higher retail price.

My main speakers are vintage 8" wide band single drivers (Stephens Trusonic 80FR and Elac S-517), so I'm missing response below 50Hz and above 10K-11K Hz.

Your cartridge seems to be fine with slight variations in VTA as were the Sure V15 III's I used for years.

DeKay

Happy Thanksgiving 

True, first I check to see if the cartridge is level then I use the straight arm because you have a longer parallel line for better accuracy .

Now in about an hour I'll be ready for pumpkin and pecan pie .

SME like my ex-Rega have tapered arms making the use of a level arm

Use the headshell to determine if the tonearm is parallel to the platter  

@dekay 

The mean might be closer to 155 but the 160 is close enough.  Today I played a 1976 German pressing of the Doors that weighed 114gr and it sounded great to my ears .  What weight record is your cartridge level ? SME like my ex-Rega have tapered arms making the use of a level arm " APITA " .

My thought on mats is that if I used one for lightweight records I would want to use a different weight for the rest of the records to keep the sonic consistency then that would open another can of worms ,Which design , do I try different materials etc .  

So sticking to " My Compromise "  locked in with a bolt VTA setting . 

My TT has an acrylic platter with a lead mat !

@fsonicsmith 

I'm a bit confused and taken back by your response , while I compromised on setting my VTA for a 160gr record or about the middle of the weight range you compromised on Bob !  We're both locked in aren't we ?

Setting it for the "mean" of your LP library would make sense, but if you do not hear a difference between 145/180 I can't imagine how you would go about it.

Maybe just forget about it for now and if you come across a thin LP that's sounds "thin" try replaying it with a shim mat.

I'm on my 3rd/last DIY rice paper/cork spot mat as I no longer have enough material left to make #4. 

Dreading looking for a replacement, though I do know that I do not care for squishy and/or ribbed rubber (like the OEM) in my setup - which narrows it down a tad.

DeKay

@testpilot 

I played a 180gr  , then a 145gr same title , then I made a paper mat just less than 1mm placed it under the 145gr , I could not hear a difference . So I agree with you about what little or no difference there can be ,  Thanks for advising  me to do a test to hear for myself , so a compromise setting at 160gr seems to be just right . I came to this by following Peter Ledermann's advice given on his videos . 

My question was for those of you who can adjust your VTA but have to lock it in  where do you set yours ?  I do not have a dial or a micrometer , my TT has a spring suspension , I have to raise and lower by hand and then lock it at that height .

My Grado cartridge is quite sensitive to slight variations in VTA.

Prior to Grado (started using Grado 20 years ago) slight VTA variations were not an issue with the Sure V15 III's I used from the mid 70's thru 1986.

Decks have all been Thorens/SME combos with the exception of a stock TD165 that I purchased to experiment with (most of the popular online mods of 20 years ago were tried).

My most used shim "mat" is a thin/floppy Fripp and Eno import LP that I purchased around 1977/78.

It incurred a bad scratch early on but for some reason (?) I hung onto it.

As an experiment try a thin LP as a "shim" mat to see what it does.

DeKay

For the first time in a while I agree with mijostyn. And testpilot. I have very expensive cartridges and on-the-fly VTA adjustment. I also rely upon the amazing Brian Walsh to set up my tables. I have had the pleasure of having him to my home five times. Not once has he counseled me to adjust VTA depending upon the thickness of each record. Nor would I. The quality of the pressing far outweighs the importance of optimum VTA/SRA for each recording. Life is short. If you are so OCD as to desire to achieve optimum SRA for every record, good on you. It is a noble goal for sure. To draw an analogy, I know people who can not stand the thought of driving a dirty car for a single day. Or even driving a car with a dirty windshield. I once knew a guy who would get down on hand and knees with a toothbrush and detergent to scrub the tile grout in his kitchen immediately after hosting a dinner party. His wife divorced him, go figure. To each their own. Each of us needs to decide how to live and what is important and what is not. Sorry for playing armchair psychologist and life-coach.

@vair68robert, set the arm for 180g.  Play a 160g record and then play it again with a 1mm paper makeshift mat.  See if you can hear a difference. . 

P.S. correction

Setting the VTA for a 180gr record and using the mat for the lower weight records. 

Thanks for your responses 

My cartridge is a Soundsmith Carmen mkII the TT is a Merrill Heirloom and the tonearm is the Classic Six that does not have the micrometer .

When using an Azimuth gauge/block to check the tonearm and cartridge parallel orientation to the record the difference between a 140gr and 180gr is very small , I would say that it would be less than 1mm , but this has caused me to think about trying a 1mm mat and setting the arm for a 140gr record and using the mat for heaverier records bring the two just a little closer .  Will a 1mm mat withstand the use of being placed on/off frequently ? If you watch Peter Ledermann's  video on SRA I am probably close enough with leaving my setting using a 160gr record .

Thank You @testpilot! If you can hear the difference between the various record weights you need to have a long discussion with your shrink. It is more likely that the variation between record Lathes is greater. Set Your SRA at 92 degrees on a 180 gm record. The stylus has to be at it's proper VTF and loaded (on the record). The very best cartridges are constructed very accurately and all you need to set both SRA and azimuth is a Wally Reference tool. This would be cartridges in the $6000 plus category, but it never hurts to check. The less expensive the cartridge the more likely the stylus is to be mounted askew thus the measurement has to be done on the record. Draw the 92 degree angle on a 3 X 3" piece of white cardboard. Use the finest pen or pencil you can find. Prop it up on the record directly behind the stylus so that your line intersects the stylus. With proper lighting and a hand held magnifier adjust the VTA  so that the center axis of the stylus is collinear with the line. If you have a Gyger S stylus or an Ortofon Replicant 100 stylus this method does not work. These styluses are not symmetrical and the measurement has to be taken off the rear surface of the stylus.  

I recently mounted an Audio Technica VM95ML and the stylus was tilted forward 3 degrees (5 degrees off). The tonearm was as high as it would go! I have not looked at any similarly priced Ortofons but I'd bet you dollars to donuts you would find the same sort of thing. With these cartridges the labor to do QC is more expensive than the cartridge!

Let’s put this into perspective.  With a 9 inch tonearm, a 1mm change in record thickness represents a 0.25° change in stylus rake angle.  In addition, some stylus profiles are less sensitive to small changes in SRA.   My suggestion, set the optimal sra based on the most common thickness record in your collection. Also, please note that once you change the sra, all other cartridge parameters also change.  Set it once and forget.  
 

Doesn't the Audiomods Six come with VTA on the fly adjustment?

I use a shim mat (placed underneath my main mat) for thinner LP's (VTA is a PITA to adjust on my old SME).

You might look into a mat (that you like the sound of) which comes in various thicknesses.

I do have "some" very thick LP's from the 50's, but I usually just use the main mat (a bit fatter bass/softer treble) as I don't have that many.

DeKay

Another option I have heard used, are multiple mats in varying thickness…