Got mine a few weeks ago. Installed it with a high-output Benz Ace H cartridge. Loved the sound but there was a hum when I turned the preamp volume past the 10 o'clock position. Later changed to a Clearaudio Concerto, the hum was quieter, but wouldn't go away no matter what I tried.
Then I read the manual closely, and it said something about using shielded interconnects. So I tried a pair of Rega Couple wires, which are made from Klotz cable, and are shielded.
And you know what, the hum just vanished! Now I'm at peace ...
Just to share with those have hum issues with the Classic. Do share your solutions.
I have a CJ PV5 which doesn't have a balance mode. The last time that I turned my volume up to check for hum and noise, I blew out one of the drivers in my Vandersteens. It cost me $950.00 for that experience. As a result I would be hesitant to recommend that anyone do that. The hum only happened when the stylus touched the record and the motor was running. Now nothing is happening, :-).
If you ran your tonearm/cartridge in balanced mode, you would be able to turn up your volume control to the max and not hear hum. (if indeed you have a grounding grounding issue) As I read trough the above posts, I still think that Bearpaws would eliminate lost of the feedback you are getting (putting the cartridge (just above the record without noise) and touching the record (noise). There seems to be some subsonics coming through the supporting structure, the turntable, the arm that from which you are hearing the harmonics. Also, VPI sells a small weight that can be attached to the head of the arm to change the mass...but I wouldn't readily go there before trying the Bearpaws.
The dealer who BTW is a great guy, immediately started working on the table as soon as I brought it in, he and I did all of the listening through headphones and after trying various things and talking to the guys at VPI, Bruce narrowed it down to the interconnects. Bamm 98% resolved, I won't say 100% until I've lived with it for awhile. He replaced my interconnects with a pair of AQ King Cobra's and now things are very good. Again, I'm going to live this for a bit and try various records before I buy off on this. The hum "appears" to be gone and it is definitely not as pronounced as it was. To be clear, I'm not hearing it. I'm cranking the volume up to 12'clock and nothing.
The downside: I've spent almost $500.00 on cartridges that could have been spent somewhere else. As a matter of fact I'm breaking in the 10X5 right now along with the new ICs.
Thanks to everyone for their help re" Bifwynne and Sbrownw" and also especially Bruce at Stereo Unlimited here in San Diego for patiently working through with me. Next upgrade will be the Zephyr or the AQ Columbias.
Macster, in light of your problems, I think letting your dealer install a new cartridge is a good idea. But before taking it out of his premises, I would ask him to plug it into a system to check it out for hum. Also, I would bring your VPI alignment jig and a digital weight meter to check for yourself that the carty is set up correctly. It should take all of 5 minutes to check alignment and weight. If there's a problem, I would insist the dealer resolve it on the spot. I offer these suggestions because the da*n tables weighs a ton. Why schlepp it around if you can avoid it??
Thanks for the info, I have been following this thread for a long time. I tried to see if I could do a low "cost fix" myself. So far I have spent $500.00 which was my budget for "self fixes." Since I need one of the cartridges that you mentioned (my dealer carries both) I am going to buy it from him and let him do the install. Most likely I will go with the Soundsmith, because it will probably last longer with the way I handle cartridges.
Macster, I own a VPI Classic 1 (w/Classic 3 wand upgrade). My "primary" carty is a Sound Smith Zephyr. No hum and not even using a ground wire from the TT to the phono pre. My back-up is a Dynavector 20X2 (H). No hum with that carty either.
I've also used a Clearaudio Maestro and Ortofon 2M Black. Those carties didn't work out for me because of compatibility issues, which may have been my fault. But no hum with either of these carties.
Check Macdadtexas comments above. I tend to agree with him. I think it's the motor and the fix is using a well shielded carty like a Sound Smith or DV. I don't know if Clearaudio or Ortofon carties are well shielded, but as stated, no hum problem for me.
I have read elsewhere that Grados are susceptible to hum, but VPI mounts them as options. Maybe the VPI Grados are special order??? Dunno.
I own a classic 1 and am using a soundsmith boheme. I have no hum at all and it sounds great on the classic. People also report having good success with the soundsmith zephyr as it was designed for JMW arms.
I have the cursed hum, and I just ordered a DV-10X5 from the NeedleDoc to see if this will rectify the problem. If it doesn't then I'm going to try a SoundSmith cartridge.
VPI sent me a brand new Classic 1 table and it was humming exactly same way as my own. The cartridge picked up the motor noise. VPI exchanged Classic for Aries 3. It arrived last week. NO HUM at all with Aries 3 and the table is just amazing.
Thanks for reminding this phrase. As being Jewish I should have known it. I am originally from Russia so know this expression in Russian but did not know its English variation.
Wayne..., sorry I'm a little confused. In setting up VTA for the 2M, does this 2 degree adjustment mean the back side of the carty should be raised a little via the VTA mechanism. If VTA is raised that way, then the back end of the carty will ride just a little higher than the front end. So, if one could actually measure the position of the tone arm, it would not be horizontal. Instead, the tone arm would ride at a slight angle -- 2 degrees as measured from the stylus tip.
Mike should know better. If not Mike, then Harry. It's Yiddish and mean obsessing about something to the point the victim gets a head-ache or very aggravated. The full expression is "don't drey my kupf." Don't give me a headache.
Exactly the issue I have. That being said, I have not had much time to work on this. But a bunch of research finds that this cart., needs the arm down 2 degrees headshell to pivot point. I had gotten this from a few people, and then also checked with VPI, as I know they tested all the 2M cartridges. Mike tells me that the 2M Black is an excellent match, as they have run them, but also said the arms needs to be dropped down about 2 degrees down towards the pivot point. Digging further, 2 degrees lower at the pivot is quite a bit, when you realize how much it takes to lower the arm 2 degrees. So I need to work on this a bit.
I've got a reply from Mike they are going to replace my table with the brand new one. Mike pointed out in his response that "the motor had a eccentricity in the shaft causing it to vibrate more than it should. Probably happened in shipping the first time, very rare when the rotor cracks!!!" Hopefully, I'll get it next week. My original one was in black. I asked Mike to replace it with the walnut one which was not available at the time of my initial purchase. He approved it. So I am in a waiting mode... Keep you posted.
Wayne.., how well does yhour Ortofon 2M Black mate with the Classic 1's 10.5i SE arm? I tried it several months ago and had problems. Still not sure if my problems related to compatibility, or the carty's output voltage, or even a defective carty.
I found the 2M to be very bright and analytical to the point of listening fatigue. In addition, the output distorted (hissed and crackled) when the sylus tracked record grooves with high-dynamic music. I have since switched over to the DV 20X2H and the SS VPI Zephyr and am quite satisfied.
I am using the balanced (XLR) connection out of my VPI junction box. I can turn the preamp's volume control to its limit without hum or noise. The background is totally black
Vinyl..lover, how did you make out with the TT. VPI finish yet? You must be frustrated as heck.
As I said above, I use the SS VPI Zephyr (MI) and DV 20X2 H (MC). Both are well shielded and both sound well, although I think the Zephyr is better. Macdadtexas and I drive the same front-end and share similar views about the Zephyr's performance. I am very pleased now because I stopped fussing with the carty set up, resonance and hum issues.
I hope Mike can pin-point the issue for you AND resolve it. Let's face it, from the tip of the stylus up to the input of your phono stage. how much is there to "drey" over. Ask Mike what "drey" means.
I am also getting a hum from my VPI Classic 1. When I touched the Interconnect at the junction box on the TT I get the hum, and also touching the interconnect at the phono stage I get the hum. I ground the TT to the phono stage and also to the preamp and I still get the hum no matter what combination of ground I use. My interconnect is from Audio Art Cables, and I confirmed with him that the interconnect is shielded. I also tried several different interconnect and I still get the hum. In taking it a bit further, I tried two other phono stages in the system and I still get the hum when playing a record or not playing a record. As a last resort I wrapped a piece of aluminum foil aroung the interconnect and the ground terminal on the TT junction box and the hum was reduced significantly. I have to turn up the preamp about 70% to hear the hum. I do not think this is the best way to solve this issue, so I am still up the creek. I will give VPI a call. Anyone tried the VIP phono cable yet or any other phono cable?
After several tests that Mike asked me to do with VPI, he diagnosed the problem. Either the cartridge is picking up electro-magnetic field from the motor or some mechanical vibrations. I've shipped the VPI base unit to him for repair.
I emailed Mike from VPI and he responded back saying that the problem should be resolved by proper grounding and using shielded interconnects. I have a ground wire running from the table to phono stage and using JPS Labs ultraconductor interconnects that the dealer confirmed they are very well shielded. Thanks for reply
Vinyl ..lover, both the DV and Zepher are shielded and I haven't noticed hum from either carty. I would circle back to your dealer. He should know what to do. But if you get stuck, try a Dynavector or SS VPI Zephyr.
Initially the Grado cartridge was installed but it gave a lot of hum even when the styles did not touch the record surface. Then the dealer suggested to replace Crado for Benz Micro MC low output. I chose Benz Micro Wood SL cartridge which was installed and I use it now. I still have an issue with the hum. But this time the hum is only when I place the styles on the record surface and the platter is moving. When the platter is not moving and the styles touches the record surface there is no hum at all. Looks like the cartridge picks up the noise from the motor. The hum is quite noticeable during the quite passages, the starting and ending grooves, the grooves in between the pieces.
"Final comments: shortly after posting this thread, I sourced a practically new Dynavector 20X2H for my Classic. This cartridge was easy and forgiving to set up and sounded very good, especially "sans" rubber mat. I liked it very much as an all-around cartidge. But that's not the end of the tale.
"Fortunately I purchased the 2M Black from an incredibly nice guy whi is unbelieveably honorable. Upon learning of my difficulties with the 2M, even with full disclosure that the problem might relate to other issues, he offered to take it back with a full refund. In addition, I sold my Clear Audio cartridges for scrap value.
"Now, enter the Zephyr. As luck would have it, one came on the market about a week ago, and I snapped it up. Just got it yesterday. I am amazed at how good it sounds. If anyone is interested in learning about the reactions of other A'gon members, as well as my impressions, there is a thread running that was started by someone else. Check it out.
"Last comment about the DV 20X2H and the Zephyr. I am using the Zephyr as my primary cartridge with the DV 20X as a back-up. Obviously, I like the Zephyr more, hands down. BUT, the DV 20X is so good, I can't part with it. I may need it one day.
"Best to all and a sincere thanks for all the helpful suggestions."
Epilogue: Mike, the VPI customer service rep, came through 100% as I surmised. I recently sold my Clear Audio cartridges for scrap/re-tip credit. As mentioned above, the Maestro's cantilever disappeared into the Fifth Dimention (not the pop group from the 70s). The Virtuoso's cantilever is bent and/or out of alignment. I definitely must stop loading the effective mass of my tone arm with a brick.
On a more serious note, Mike did some testing of the Classic 1 arm and Maestro combo. He reported back to me that the resonant frequency was 16 Hz, which is too high. This could possibly be the cause of the bass ringing, but I can't say for sure now because those cartridges are history. Anyone reading this post who is interested in installing a Meastro on a Classic 1 arm arm would be well advised to call or e mail Mike at VPI first to learn what tweaks may be necessary to get the combo to work at its top potential.
In addition, it recently came to my attention that the VTA adjustment set screws at the bottom of the Classic 1 tone arm base were loose. I'm currently using a Dynavector 20X2H cartridge. The DV opened up after I tightened the VTA set screws down. Something to keep in mind with the Classic 1. Don't know if the Classic 2/3 is susceptible to the same issue since VTA is adjusted on the fly.
And btw, I haven't got a clue if the source of the bass ringing I heard on the Maestro and Virtuoso in some way related to the VTA set screw issue. As stated above, check with Mike.
So I've traded in the Classic for the Aries 3. Sad to see the Classic go, but I think I'm going to have fun upgrading parts of the Aries 3 in the years (months?). Platter, feet, maybe rim drive ...
Hey Bassman, I'm burned out with all these delays. Too much gatification delay. Still waiting to get my Classic 3 arm. BTW, I just sourced a new Ortofon 2M Black and a practically new DV 20X H MkII. Should get both before end of the week. I hear both sound great on the Classic. I'll try both and run with the better one. I'll report back.
The Aries 3 is running beautifully. Itchy fingers - wondering how it would sound with the Classic's metal platter. Mike of VPI said no prob using it with the Aries 3, so I did a switch.
Wondering if it's my imagination that the metal platter gave the sound more weight and control ...
In my post from May 28th I said "I installed my old CA Virtuoso and I'm back in business. Phono pre is ok. No hum or resonance that I can detect." Sorry guys and gals -- too quick on the draw "pardners."
After more listening, I get the same exact bass resonance with the Virtuoso as I did with the Maestro. And that makes more sense because the cartridges are very similar.
I am still trading e mails with Mike at VPI about the bass resonance issue. I am 100% confident everything will be resolved to my complete satisfaction this coming week. When everything settles down, I'll report back.
In the meantime, to everyone reading this post, have a safe and restful Memorial Day weekend. Let's not forget what the holiday is all about. G-d bless America and the brave men and women who have taken up arms in her defense.
I got the dealer to come over to my place to listen, so he could hear what I was talking about. He agreed there was a hum each time the cartridge hit the groove and started playing. He tried a few tests, including what Bifwynne earlier suggested. Says he never heard on the issue from other Classic customers.
We then transferred the Maestro over to the Aries 3, and immediately, on the first LP itself, we could tell. No hum. Just the music and usual heavenly pops and clicks.
He offered to take back the Classic, I just need to top up for the Aries 3, which is rarely utilised demo unit with the protective paper sticker still attached to the plinth. Discounted from his usual retail, of course.
Sorry to see the Classic go ... now to work towards turbo-ing the Aries 3 along the way. Audiophiles ... sigh ...
As Macdadtexas said, it looks like the hum related to the motor since nthe Aries motor is an outboard job. Curious though because I did not have a hum with my Classic/Maestro combo.
Ha ha, at least you found a solution ... if the Aries 3 with the Maestro is hum-free and the results tug at my heartstrings, I'm leaning towards trading in my Classic. But let's see in a few hours .... :)
Bassraptor and Macdadtexas: My particular problem may have resolved itself. Here's why.
I turned on my rig, carefully as usual lowered the stylus onto the record -- and no sound. Thought a tube blew in my phon pre, so I opened up the case and checked the tubes. A-OK!! Uh-oh. I figured now I've got phono pre problems. Gettin' ready to ditch vinyl and go back full tilt to my trustee CDP.
Then, behold, Shaazaaam! I noticed that the da*n cantilever on my Maestro disappeared into the 4th dimension. Last night it was there and today it "weren't." I asked my kids if the messed with the TT, but they said they did not.
I installed my old CA Virtuoso and I'm back in business. Phono pre is ok. No hum or resonance that I can detect. I still think the Maestro sounds better than the Viruoso --but then it should. It costs a couple of hundred bucks more.
So, at this point I'm inclined to thro' the towel in with the Clear Audio Maestro. I'll see what I can pick up, maybe one of the cartrideges that VPI sells; maybe a Soundsmith Zypher -- which I think is named after Mr. Federman's dog. I'll report back later.
Bassguy, you're right. This is too da*n hard. Never had this much grief with my old Thorens TD 160 Mk II and $79 Ortofon from back in the 70s. Please report back on how you fare with the Aries.
This hum I get when stylus eases into groove, I've experienced from these cartridges:
Benz Gullwing (MC, 0.6mV output) Dynavector Karat (MC, 0.3mV) Sumiko Blue Point (MC, 2.5mV) Clearaudio Maestro (MM, 3.6mV)
Earlier, I used these, and either didn't notice any hum that could have been present, or there was no hum to be heard. Hard to say as I can't retrance my steps to this point:
Clearaudio Concerto Benz Ace H
I tend to lean towards Mcdadtexas' assessment that it's the motor built on the plinth.
Thinking further back, I did notice this issue with a cheap Project Expression II tt package I tried out for a bit last year, which had an Ortofon MM cartridge. That one had a motor suspended on the chassis. Prior to that, I had set up various Project systems at my place - the RM5, 6 and 9 lines - all with outboard motors, and don't recall this issue.
I've never heard aforesaid hum from any of the Rega tts I've had - 3, 5 and 7 - although they all had motors on the plinth.
With my previous Clearaudio Performance, no issue - it used, first a Maestro, then a Concerto. Outboard motor.
Also, finally, I had a NAS Interspace last year, with its own unipivot arm. Benz Ace H and Grado (green) cartridges were used at different times, no hum. Motor on plinth.
I'm curious to hear how the Aries 3, with its outboard motor, fares when we set it up this evening.
Seems a bit of a waste if you can use a tt with a just very limited range of cartridges.
The Soundsmiths are all MI high output cartridges, you can check the website (www.sound-smith.com) for the particulars. They can be used with MM phono stages. I use the Soundsmith's now, but it's not the only well sheilded cartridge. Dynavector and many other manufactures make well sheilded cartridges that guard against hum.
Call NeedleDoctor and ask them for recommendations based on well sheilded cartridges, and/or start a string on here.
BTW - I tried about 6 cartridges before I settled on the current one I have in use.
Macdadtexas: Is the Soundsmith Zypher a MM or MC? If MC, do you know what the voltage output is? The gain in my phono pre is 58 db, so I don't want to install a cartridge with an output of too much less than 1 mV. How much does it cost?
Also, Bassraptor and I seem to have different problems with our Classic TT. Bassraptor complains of an annoying hum with his Maestro. By contrast, I do not detect any hum with my Classic/Maestro combo. Rather, I detect an anoooying bass resonance. Very different problems with same cartridge and similar TTs. The only difference is that Bassraptor has a SS arm, where I have the stock arm.
Given that you believe the problem relates to the motor in the plinth, why does Bassraptor have the hum problem but I do not?????
Macdad - Soundsmith not available where I live, so I have to order online ... too much of a risk to take if i don't like it ... where i live, at least the dealers let me try demo units of the cartridges i've mentioned.
Bifwynne - That hum is still there whatever I try. Tmrw, the dealer is coming over to my place to have a listen and see what he can figure out. The darndest this is the Maestro and Classic seem to love each other otherwise!
On the other hand, I could have the option of an Aries 3 ... :)
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