The Aries 3 in on order through my dealer. :-) I hate to see the Classic go, but the hmmmm is too aggravating. Even though it's really low I can still hear it. Thanks for all the help, but it's time to move on.
Happy holidays, and stay away from unhappy people.
M~ |
96% of the hum is gone. No hum at all just listening to records through the phono section. I still get some (albeit at a very low tolerable level through my headphone jack) Cost $140.00 for a new motor. I'm still in the process of listening to a variety of records and checking things out. |
I have the cursed hum, and I just ordered a DV-10X5 from the NeedleDoc to see if this will rectify the problem. If it doesn't then I'm going to try a SoundSmith cartridge.
M~ |
Thanks Andy, if this works I will get the Zephyr, after the holidays.
M~ |
Well, the new Dynavector 10X5 didn't work. Tomorrow it's off to the dealer to see about fixing this. |
Bifwynne
Thanks for the info, I have been following this thread for a long time. I tried to see if I could do a low "cost fix" myself. So far I have spent $500.00 which was my budget for "self fixes." Since I need one of the cartridges that you mentioned (my dealer carries both) I am going to buy it from him and let him do the install. Most likely I will go with the Soundsmith, because it will probably last longer with the way I handle cartridges. |
Update
My Aries 3 will be shipping at the end of next week. I'm having the feet from my Classic-1 install on it.
M~ |
The dealer who BTW is a great guy, immediately started working on the table as soon as I brought it in, he and I did all of the listening through headphones and after trying various things and talking to the guys at VPI, Bruce narrowed it down to the interconnects. Bamm 98% resolved, I won't say 100% until I've lived with it for awhile. He replaced my interconnects with a pair of AQ King Cobra's and now things are very good. Again, I'm going to live this for a bit and try various records before I buy off on this. The hum "appears" to be gone and it is definitely not as pronounced as it was. To be clear, I'm not hearing it. I'm cranking the volume up to 12'clock and nothing.
The downside: I've spent almost $500.00 on cartridges that could have been spent somewhere else. As a matter of fact I'm breaking in the 10X5 right now along with the new ICs.
Thanks to everyone for their help re" Bifwynne and Sbrownw" and also especially Bruce at Stereo Unlimited here in San Diego for patiently working through with me. Next upgrade will be the Zephyr or the AQ Columbias. |
Stringreen
I have a CJ PV5 which doesn't have a balance mode. The last time that I turned my volume up to check for hum and noise, I blew out one of the drivers in my Vandersteens. It cost me $950.00 for that experience. As a result I would be hesitant to recommend that anyone do that. The hum only happened when the stylus touched the record and the motor was running. Now nothing is happening, :-). |
I never a problem until I had the bright idea to detoix my Goldring GL2500. The result was a nightmare and I ended up klutzing the stylus.After that I made some interconnect changes and from there I got on the cartridge merry go round to try to solve the problem. Now I'm going back to square one.
Actusreus
IMHO that hiss is a normal tube by product, but I'd talk to Bruce about it. Thanks for the contact info. |
One way or the other, I'm going to resolve this today. I'm taking the table back with my preamp and cassette deck and going through the trouble shooting process with my bud. What I've found is that if I disconnect the belt from the motor (let it wrap it's self around the platter). Then place a record on the table with the arm down touching the record and after that select source monitor on my Nak and plug in a set of head phones to the deck I can clearly hear the motor noise (hum) when I turn the motor on and off. This same hum is what I hear on the tapes that I'm making and now it's really bothering me. So I'm going to take Bifwynne's and Macdadtexas advice and get a Soundsmith Zypher or Dyna 20X2H. |
Found the source of the problem. New parts are on the way and will be installed tomorrow. |
The motor and I know that it's a "duh." But I will elaborate more after my parts are in. I would "highly" recommend that anyone who has this problem to work with VPI and the dealer to resolve it. Once my table is finished, we'll be certain of the "fix" as I have my Goldring GL2500 in it and it was humming with the motor turned on, with the arm down on the record. When you turn the motor off the hum stopped.
Again, the whole approach on this is to find the problem and fix it. If you think about it installing a shielded cartridge does not solve the problem. If you want you can email me @ blkmacster@nosapam.cox.net, of course remove the nosapam. |
Vibration, which is picked by the stylus and transmitted through the phono section. If you remove the motor from its mount the hum (resonance) goes away. My motor vibrated a lot compared to the other motors that we checked. We had gotten it to the point that you couldn't hear the resonance through the phone stage, however when we connected my tape deck and monitored the source it was very audible. It was also very audible on the tapes that I made. I'm thinking that a stethoscope would be very useful in trouble shooting this. A shield cartridge may mask the resonance problem. If nothing else it cost very little to check the motor vibration out before springing for a cartridge. |
The heck with this, I give up. I'm doing what you guys did. The hum still comes through on my tapes. So it's either a Soundsmith or a DV20XH. |
IMHO, the hum is a mechanical hum, and is the result of the motor vibrations being transferred through the plinth. If you take the motor out. You can turn it on and off all day with no hum whatsoever. This was verified by using the tape monitor and listening through a set of headphones and was the reason for going with the 300 RPM motor (less vibration). Keep in mind that Im still getting hum when listening through the phono-stage in my system.
Actually using the source monitor on the tape deck is great for this in that it allows you to amplify whatever is coming through the cartridge. There are things that are going on that are covered up by the music. By using the tape monitor with belt disconnected from the platter, and the arm down on the platter you can heard the noise (mechanical hum) from the motor when it's turned on and off quite clearly. Normally on this table, what happens is that when everything is connected the cartridge acts like a microphone and the mechanical hum is picked up along with the music from the LP. I may not be explaining this quite right, but I never had this problem with my LP12. There was never any hum at all on the tapes made on my Naks or Revox machines. All of the tapes made on those machines are dead quiet. Also, I have a Project table here and no hum. Also, there is a possibility that you guys may still have the hum, but are not noticing it because you arent recording. Still, I'm open. I think that in my case, we may have to go with an outboard motor configuration of some kind or change the table to an Aries which has an outboard motor assembly. But right now I'm not in the mood to be spending a lot of money on this.
Where I'm at now. I have the Classic 300 RPM motor with the new pulley with a set of Audioquest King Cobra cables and a Dyna 10X5. The hum is lower (tolerable) but still aggravating. I talked to Peter of Soundsmith about the shielding on his cartridges and he said that all of his cartridges are six sided shielded and were shielded in the same fashion. So the shielding is the same on a Zephyr as a Carmen. So I ordered a Carmen. I will contact my dealer later in the week to let him know how the 300 RPM motor is working out and to inform him that I still have my problem. Im not as frustrated as I was earlier because there are people who have real problems (food, clothing, shelter) and here I am blessed to be dealing with turntable hum. It got me back on track, Im just going to see this through. However, I dont feel that this is my problem if you get my drift. |
NP
I'm working with my dealer on this. I know that we'll get it figured out. It may just my setup, I use my Classic to record cassette tapes. My setup CJ PV5, MF2500A Vandy 3A sigs, Nak CR7A, Dragon, Revox B-215, not the greatest but it allows me to enjoy the music. If you get a chance, record something and listen to the play back.
|
I received my new styled Carmen on Wednesday and installed it. It's a great looking cartridge and sounds wonderful. Now to the point, the hum is still there. If you weren't aware of it before, you probably wouldn't notice until you listen to a recording made from table via a set of headphones. Well that's not good enough for me, so the table will be upgraded to an Aries 3 next year. Don't get me wrong, this thing simply rocks with the Soundsmith Carmen. I have the arm set to level, VTF @1.394gm, and am using the 3gm VPI headshell weight. It has it all, separation, depth, explosiveness and just flat out enjoyable. I'm staying with the Soundsmith line and will move up incrementally. This cartridge is seriously good for the price.
M~ |
Bassraptor
RE"I did a whole lock-stock-and-barrel change. The provided arms with each deck don't seem to be drop-in exchangeable units, unless, I suppose, one removes the arm base/mount as well."
I remove the entire arm and mounting assembly, this included the round mounting base and the phono junction box. Also, I had them to transfer the feet from my Classic to my Aries. I'm pretty good at setting up tables, hopefully this will go well. I'm thinking that I can have it set up in about 15 minutes or so, because everything should drop in. But as they say "stuff happens." Well, I'm looking forward to bringing this to a close.
M~ |
I agree, it should be. I've contacted VPI and also have spent over $1000.00 for various fixes and things. The thing is, that, if you had never heard what I'm hearing with my table, you wouldn't notice it, even now( with all the fixes). The problem comes from having heard it and now I'm locked in on it. I was able to make dead quiet recordings from using my LP12 with any cartridge that I had (Grado's , Shures, etc). This is not possible with the Classic. During my trouble shooting of the Classic, I was able to borrow an outboard motor assembly. With it connected to the Classic, all of my recordings were dead quiet. As a result of that and using a stethoscope on the plinth to check for motor noise I was able to confirm the source of my problem and come to a conclusion. Again, don't get me wrong, with the Soundsmith, and 300RPM motor the table is very quiet but not dead quiet in my listening environment, it's very enjoyable to listen to. However, I want and need to make dead quiet recordings, so I will be moving up to an Aries 3 like the gentleman did earlier in this thread. I've learned a lot on how to mitigate the noise to an acceptable level without spending a lot of money like I did and if someone wants to know they can email me. |
I am, it will be in exchange for an Aries 3.
M~ |
Mine didn't at first, but it does now. Again, if you never ever heard what I'm talking about, you wouldn't know that it's there. For the most part, it's covered up by the music. It's only apparent when you are listening to the table through headphones. However once you've heard it, you can pick it out without fail.
Bassraptor, thanks for the info about the platter/bearing interface. I'll be keeping my platter, whole arm assembly, feet and transferring them to the Aries 3. Let me know If you come up with any additional info.
M~ |
For those of you who are suffering in silence. Get the following: Danco #36 O-Ring pn#96750 $3.00 and Surface guard felt washer kit pn#9425--- $1.96 from Home Depot or where ever.
1. Put the Danco washers under the motor around the mounting screw holes. The motor will rest on the washers.
2. Take the smallest felt pad and place them on top of the motor felt side up, midway between the mounting holes.
3. Tighten (just snug) everything down using a star pattern.
Why this?
Because it helps to isolate the motor.
It's cheaper than buying a 300RPM motor ($140+ shipping.
It works... to a point.
If it doesn't work, the washers and felt pads make nice Xmas gifts.
M~ |
Bassraptor
You started a thread that just won't die. I just emailed Mike at VPI and told him that I would be exchanging tables next year. I don't want to risk any shipping disorders during this holiday season.
Anyway, I will be keeping my arm and the entire assy. Does the Aries 3 come with the phono junction box? I also intend to keep the feet and the platter. They will be getting my table and the upgraded motor assy. Is this similar to what you did? Also, I will be setting up my table on my own. I have it down to a science.
M~ |
I received my Aries 3 yesterday and set it up today. The motor hum is G-O-N-E. It took a long time, but it was worth it. Thanks again to Bassraptor, Bifwynne and Macdadtexas for all your help.
M~ |
RE" Meanwhile, let's hope this 31-month-old thread will finally stop cropping up!"
HA!
M~ |
