the phrase ’technically superior’ is a misnomer relative to our listening to music. on paper digital recorders do all sorts of magic tricks as far as dynamic range and bandwidth. and data on analog recorders misses the fact that analog recorders record data into the noise floor, whereas digital recorders have hard limits that cannot be really approached. i claim that no digital recordings i’ve heard capture music like 1/2" tape and if you throw 30ips into it the delta is even greater. here is a link to an interview with a well known recording engineer that talks to this issue and it’s real world consequences. scroll down toward the bottom; https://www.stereophile.com/content/hdcd-keith-johnson-pflash-pflaumer-michael-ritter this subject has been beat to death, stomped on and kicked dozens of times. i have the highest level digital playback gear and daily compare the highest rez digital to vinyl and tape. the results are easily heard. |
Absolutely Mike, it is the music that counts. Quality is secondary but it always helps. When it gets down to brass tacks it is the quality of the final end user material that counts and one magic thing about digital is that it does not deteriorate over time and generations unlike analog. So, although under the best circumstance analog sounds better this may not be true with the program sources we get. A great example of this is the telephone. Anybody remember what analog cell phones sounded like? Yuk, what a mess. There is no comparison to modern digital phones. |
mikelavigne... on paper digital recorders do all sorts of magic tricks as far as dynamic range and bandwidth. and data on analog recorders misses the fact that analog recorders record data into the noise floor, whereas digital recorders have hard limits that cannot be really approached. i claim that no digital recordings i’ve heard capture music like 1/2" tape ... this subject has been beat to death, stomped on and kicked dozens of times. i have the highest level digital playback gear and daily compare the highest rez digital to vinyl and tape. the results are easily heard. Understood. What you are doing is assessing the potential of digital and analog recording based on what other people say and record. If you really want to understand the potential differences, I suggest you make your own recordings. For example, you might want to take one of your better analog recordings, dub it to digital, and then A/B the two. The results might surprise you. Then, do the reverse: Dub to analog an excellent recording you made first on digital.
A/B the two.
I’m a fan of LP, by the way, and of analog tape. |
been there, done that. multiple times, in multiple ways. i have 800-900 needle drops. these are 2xdsd vinyl rips of my vinyl i have on my NAS. play them often. and hundreds of digital tape transfers at various hirez levels i can compare to the vinyl transfers. then there was the recording done in my room back in 2008 where pro audio guys dubbed a direct to disc record off my turntable and tried to get it to sound as good as the source. https://www.audaud.com/jun-fukamachi-at-steinway-take-2-toshiba-emi-direct-discfirst-impression-music/ try as they might, they could not capture the musical nuance of the vinyl on their state of the art digital recorders. i can dub vinyl with my tape deck that get’s it all. or dub my tape to another tape and get it all too. look at my system pages........ https://systems.audiogon.com/systems/615
.......and you will see i’m set up to easily do just that any time. |
mikelavignebeen there, done that. multiple times, in multiple ways.
i have 800-900 needle drops. these are 2xdsd vinyl rips of my vinyl i have on my NAS. play them often. and hundreds of digital tape transfers at various hirez levels i can compare to the vinyl transfers. No, you haven’t quite "been there, done that." Creating a "needle drop" is not making your own recording. Dubbing the recordings of others is not the same as actually making your own recordings from a live source. ... then there was the recording done in my room back in 2008 where pro audio guys ... 2008? That was 84 dog-years ago! Just as DACs have improved since then, so have ADCs. i can dub vinyl with my tape deck that get’s it all. Me too! That’s easy to do! I can also make a CDR that is indistinguishable from the LP. Easy to do! i claim that no digital recordings i’ve heard capture music like 1/2" tape That statement would have more value if you’d experiment with your own recordings, but I understand that takes a lot of time and effort. |
@mijostyn
Comparing analog to digital cell phones has got to be one of the worst examples for argument I’ve heard yet. |
“Top-notch digital“ is a misnomer since even the most expensive digital players produce serious audible errors. The three most serious errors are external vibration, vibration and flutter of the disc itself whilst spinning and our old friend scattered background laser light. Now, I know a lot of you are probably thinking, “but I thought all modern CD players solved those problems a long time ago, doesn’t reclocking and buffering eliminate those problems?” Better think again, buddy boy. And yes, I know what you’re thinking, “but my system sounds fabulous!”
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“Top-notch digital“ is a misnomer since even the most expensive digital players produce serious audible errors. The three most serious errors are external vibration, vibration and flutter of the disc itself whilst spinning and our old friend scattered background laser light. Now, I know a lot of you are probably thinking, “but I thought all modern CD players solved those problems a long time ago, doesn’t reclocking and buffering eliminate those problems?” Better think again, buddy boy. And yes, I know what you’re thinking, “but my system sounds fabulous!” CD? what’s a CD? spinning disc? what’s that have to do with digital audio? that’s so "5 years ago". now it’s PCIe drives. agree on the effect of resonance on circuits though. that is major. |
While streaming might be top-notch, maybe yes, maybe no, like everything else it probably depends on many factors, I was directing my comments at CD players, which was the subject of the OP. |
a 12 year old thread.
we live in the present. |
No, you live in the future. Most people have CD players.
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mikelavigne
CD? what’s a CD? spinning disc? what’s that have to do with digital audio?
... a 12 year old thread. we live in the present. This thread is about CD players. Are you suggesting that it be closed to suit your sensibilities? |
It is a rare cd that betters its vinyl counterpart. This is especially so with recordings made prior to the late 1990s
I’ve compared many on my system--Wilson Alexia 2s, ARC Ref 160 monos, ARC Ref 40 preamp, Spectral SDR 4000SV, cd player, BelCanto Pl1 Player (alternate cd player), VPI HRX w rim drive, superplatter and a number of 12’ arms and carts, the most often used being 3d tonearms w Lyra Atlas and Dynavector XV1-t carts. Except for some recordings made entirely in the digital domain, the differences are not subtle.
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Most people have CD players. that’s not true. less than half have active CD players in their systems. and few are being added. maybe they have an old CD player or transport in storage. for the last 4 years i’ve had an ’old’ Oppo sitting in my closet in case i needed to spin a disc. not had to plug it in. and the heading of the thread is "Vinyl-vs-Top-Notch-Digital". in case you’ve been under a rock the last 5 years, "Top Notch Digital" is not CD’s........and has not been for many years. |
let me help you out here with some relevant information;
" Per the RIAA: “Revenues from streaming music platforms grew 30% year-over-year to reach $7.4 billion, contributing 75% of total revenues for 2018, and accounting for virtually all the revenue growth for the year.”
"While physical media sales were down 23%, CD sales themselves slipped 34% for the year to $698 million. That’s the first time CD yearly revenue has come in below $1 billion since 1986."
here is what CD has to say.......
"I’M DYING’.
btw; i like 16/44 redbook and no doubt CD’s can sound very very fine. i own 4000 of them, but don't spin any. i’m not knocking it and listen to redbook files often. but it’s not ’Top Notch Digital’ and it’s not relevant to that subject. |
mikelavigne... less than half have active CD players in their systems. and few are being added ... So what? That was true even 8 years ago, when CDs were still a dominant medium.
let me help you out here with some relevant information;
" Per
the RIAA: “Revenues from streaming music platforms grew 30%
year-over-year ... While physical media sales were down 23%, CD sales themselves slipped 34% I'm not sure how relevant that info is. That data is mass market data, just as your CD ownership player info is mass market. It includes people who don't care about sound and music, and those who do and think their Bose ownership proves it. It doesn't tell us anything about audiophiles, some of whom (such as yourself) still use analog tape.
... no doubt CD’s can sound very very fine ... but don't spin any ... it’s not ’Top Notch Digital’ and it’s not
relevant to that subject.
CD is absolutely relevant to this thread. Please note the OP asked: How much would one have to invest in analog to easily top the sound
quality of the Meridian 800 (or similar quality digital player)?
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12, t w e l v e, years ago. the Meridian 800 and it's ilk are dead and buried. open your eyes.
and the request was for ’top-notch digital’.
and if the whole wide world was not shut down i would not waste my time with this stuff.
question; who gives a rip (pun intended) about spinning disc CD performance?
answer; someone who has no idea about ’top notch digital’. |
